To Kit or not to Kit?

[Poopdeck 0]

Hope I didn't come off the wrong way. Your probably right with the cheap Asian stuff but I wanted to point out that inexpensive does not necessarily equal cheap in quality. It took me a long time to get into fly fishing because of a false assumption that fly fishing was expensive. While it can be expensive it need not be. Fly tying is the same in that a 200 dollar vice is not needed by 99% of fly tyers. A 20 dollar vice can be serviceable and probably won't need to be replaced ever but it lacks the sex appeal some people crave.

[atxdiscgolfer 0]

I bought a non rotary streamside vice kit to see if this was something that i wanted to do, ended up buying a rotary Peak vice a year later so that i could tie saltwater flys easier; i still use the box for keeping all my tying tools in

[throwinflys 0]

i started with a kit and i found 90 percent of the materials useless and the vice is pretty much worthless after only owning it for 5 months. i'd just spend the money now. i deal with my vise because i want to spend my money on more materials to tye new patterns and not have to spend a big chunk of my budget on a vise. just start with a decent vise. i hear the peak rotary is nice! and j.stockard sells them for 150 new

[flytire 0]

i started with a kit and i found 90 percent of the materials useless and the vice is pretty much worthless after only owning it for 5 months.

 

who put out the kit?

 

what were your expectations regarding that kit?

 

please explain which materials where uselees

 

where the materials useless because you didnt know what they were or how to use them?

 

i understand about the the vise and maybe some tools, but please help others understand why kits are so bad

[throwinflys 0]

i started with a kit and i found 90 percent of the materials useless and the vice is pretty much worthless after only owning it for 5 months.

 

who put out the kit?

 

what were your expectations regarding that kit?

 

please explain which materials where uselees

 

where the materials useless because you didnt know what they were or how to use them?

 

i understand about the the vise and maybe some tools, but please help others understand why kits are so bad

 

My kit was from cabelas. all of the hackle that i got in the kit were WAY too big. the chenille was also too big to tye anything in the hook size range i got in the kit. the kit came with crappy hooks too (lazer sharp). the general tools like the bodkin and hackle pliers were good but i had a FIT with the bobbin getting burrs and breaking string. also it came with the worst ever assortment of threads all too big. basically they send you the hooks to tye the smaller nymphs and dries, but no materials to make anything that small. it all boils down to the fact that fly tying is extremely delicate and precise. if you have to spend your time messing around with your equipment, it will get old FAST and your flies will not look very good. the first day i got to really enjoy tying was a month after i got my kit when i placed a big order to jstockard and just got the stuff that i needed and would actually tye flys that float and look right. if you are resourceful, its pretty easy to come up with cheap if not free materials. i got a lot of free turkey feathers, deer hair, peacock feathers, mallard, and pheasant all by just asking people i knew who hunt. i really wish i would have gotten a nice vise to start and materials to tye say... 5 patterns and then just tyed them until they came out perfect, then pick 5 more and go to town. its the best way i've found to keep tying new things and to make sure you aren't just tying 1 or 2 and moving on to the next fly.

[flytire 0]

thank you for responding about your experience with the cabelas kit

 

however, it sounds like the materials could still be used if they had sized the materials to work with the hook sizes or supplied larger sized hooks. i'm not sure that makes the materials useless. could be someone on the assembly line messed up the hook sizing. who knows.

 

sometimes you do have to mess around with your equipment. even with the most expensive bobbin holders, they dont always come out of the box and fit every single spool perfectly. sometimes minor adjustments to the arms have to be made to fit the spool and every fly tyer has their own preference as to how tight or loose they want their bobbin holder. it only takes a minute or two out of your fly tying experience so you might as well set it up to your liking.

 

breaking thread is not only the bobbin holders fault. the tyer also has something to do with it. if you happen to nick the thread with the point of the hook, you can almost count it to break or fray on the following wraps. i'm 30+ years into fly tying and i still break thread. not as often as when i started, but i still do. its not that big of a deal.

[throwinflys 0]

thank you for responding about your experience with the cabelas kit

 

however, it sounds like the materials could still be used if they had sized the materials to work with the hook sizes or supplied larger sized hooks. i'm not sure that makes the materials useless. could be someone on the assembly line messed up the hook sizing. who knows.

 

sometimes you do have to mess around with your equipment. even with the most expensive bobbin holders, they dont always come out of the box and fit every single spool perfectly. sometimes minor adjustments to the arms have to be made to fit the spool and every fly tyer has their own preference as to how tight or loose they want their bobbin holder. it only takes a minute or two out of your fly tying experience so you might as well set it up to your liking.

 

breaking thread is not only the bobbin holders fault. the tyer also has something to do with it. if you happen to nick the thread with the point of the hook, you can almost count it to break or fray on the following wraps. i'm 30+ years into fly tying and i still break thread. not as often as when i started, but i still do. its not that big of a deal.

i'm no expert but i know the difference between nicking my thread on a hook and their being burrs inside the metal tube and the thread coming out weak. i've had to run fine sandpaper inside 2 times already to fix that issue. the vise has screws that keep falling out when you try to clamp down the hook. also the materials that cabelas sent, EVEN if i had the right size hooks, are badly dyed and they widen out so fast that you can only get MAYBE three wraps before the hackle is a few sizes too big. really only good for wooly buggers. but i tied probably... oh... 6 wolly buggers on the olive hackle i got and i have no more usable hackle in any size 6 and under. the only materials i really liked out of the kit were the peacock herl and marabou.

[throwinflys 0]

thank you for responding about your experience with the cabelas kit

 

however, it sounds like the materials could still be used if they had sized the materials to work with the hook sizes or supplied larger sized hooks. i'm not sure that makes the materials useless. could be someone on the assembly line messed up the hook sizing. who knows.

 

sometimes you do have to mess around with your equipment. even with the most expensive bobbin holders, they dont always come out of the box and fit every single spool perfectly. sometimes minor adjustments to the arms have to be made to fit the spool and every fly tyer has their own preference as to how tight or loose they want their bobbin holder. it only takes a minute or two out of your fly tying experience so you might as well set it up to your liking.

 

breaking thread is not only the bobbin holders fault. the tyer also has something to do with it. if you happen to nick the thread with the point of the hook, you can almost count it to break or fray on the following wraps. i'm 30+ years into fly tying and i still break thread. not as often as when i started, but i still do. its not that big of a deal.

i'm no expert but i know the difference between nicking my thread on a hook and their being burrs inside the metal tube and the thread coming out weak. i've had to run fine sandpaper inside 2 times already to fix that issue. the vise has screws that keep falling out when you try to clamp down the hook. also the materials that cabelas sent, EVEN if i had the right size hooks, are badly dyed and they widen out so fast that you can only get MAYBE three wraps before the hackle is a few sizes too big. really only good for wooly buggers. but i tied probably... oh... 6 wolly buggers on the olive hackle i got and i have no more usable hackle in any size 6 and under. the only materials i really liked out of the kit were the peacock herl and marabou.

OH and the "nice box" they have the kit in... falls apart. mine is almost complete garbage and i don't even ever use it.

[moose13 0]

First off, if you think tying your own will save you money, good luck. This can become a pricey little hobby.

If you are like me and just want to create something and catch fish with it and tie a few patterns in your spare time then carry on.

 

I started with a Peak rotary vice $150.00 , i bought a fly tying organizer thing from a retired wood shop teacher on ebay, $70.00, misc tools from a local shop $50.00. I won a whole table of misc materials off ebay $70.00. Then odds and ends hooks, beads, materials. I have only been tying for a few months but am already glad i did not go cheap. If you think you will enjoy it and stick with it, i would get a good setup right off. I do recommend a rotary vice. Bobbins, scissors, pliers, whip finishers are really cheap, start with a good vise and a couple bigger patterns. I started with big wooly buggers and am slowly getting into small dry flies.

[fshrmanms 0]

I bought a kit once to make poppers. It was useless, back then there were no computers everything came from a catalog. I gave up on the idea of tying until I retired in 2009. I see some pretty good looking stuff in kits now but I got the mother lode of stuff buying it second hand. You wouldn't believe the box of stuff I picked up at an auction just last Saturday. over 70 unused bags of stuff (mallard and teal wings, golden pheasant, peacock wings probably $500 worth of stuff.) I have a ton of stuff mostly second hand including regal, renzhetti, and griffin vises. I picked up a whole otter pelt at a yard sale for $0.25! I am still on the prowl even though I am way past having what I need. All to say creative shopping can really stock the shelves. Any body know what Siberian squirrel tail is good for?

[muskyhunter81 0]

I started tying about 15 years ago. I bought the cheapest vise I could find at Sportsman’s Warehouse. I used my Dad’s old materials from a kit he had when he was a kid, which was just peacock herl, oversized grizzly feathers, gray rabbit hair, black thread and a bobbin. Even though my materials were not the best I still caught lots of fish with the flies I tied using those materials. Over time, I slowly bought my own upgraded materials. I just recently invested $150.00 for a peak vise which I look at as an excellent investment because I know that tying flies is something that is not just a fad for me. I really enjoy doing it. The question of “Are kits worth trying?” has been floating in my mind recently and my advice is, buy a cheap vise and bobbin, the materials to tie a couple of your favorite flies and either buy or borrow Charlie Craven’s Basic Fly Tying book. Although the flies you pick may not be in Charlie Craven’s book, the book does an excellent job explaining how to use basic materials and how to tie with them. I wouldn’t go hundreds of dollars into it until you know that it is something that you will not only enjoy but be willing to invest a good chunk of money into. Just my 2 cents.

[m_grieb 0]

I started with baits older hooks, sewing thread, rubber bands, and scissors. My suggestion would be to read up on it so you are very very familiar with it and then buy good stuff if you are willing to stick with it.

 

Matt

[moose13 0]

Youtube is an awesome resource.

Lots of good beginner videos.

Checkout Jim Misiura, he has many good beginner videos.

[utyer 0]

The first post in this thread was made back in May. Since then, there as been no further posts by this member. We may have scared him off, or he just got bored with the whole thing. Anyway, it looks like we are beating a dead horse.