Hellgrammite 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2013 Me and deer hair just dont get along. 1) I am extraordinarily allergic to any form of animal hair. Deer hair makes me itch, makes my eyes itchy, I can usually deal with it. Ok. 2) I seem to have trouble finding useful hair. I have 3 pieces of deer hair ( I am poor, so cannot mail order a ton in hopes of getting a good patch). Yep, I know NOTHING about deer hair, other than I like how it works on dry flies. Here they be: The one on the right is shorter (labelled, short deer body hair, brown) and works nicely for these flies. It is finer hair and a little goes a long way. The 2 others, the longer hair, seem to be "hollow" hair, and the thread actually cuts many of these hairs, so they fall off leaving sparser wings than I want, when I wrap in the wings on my deer hair caddis and comparaduns. I guess this longer hair is for, I dont know, something that isnt this? Now, EHCs and comparaduns can both be made with 1 kind of hair, yes? Humor me here; one calls for deer hair, one for elk... they cant be that different, or are they? And is there some way that the hair is labeled so I can tell what I am getting? I know they sell it dyed, I hope? Basically, help me. What kind of hair do i Use on these things, and does it come dyed or bleached? I like these colors, kind of a tan, brown, and greyish, but I cant really use the tan or brown i have. Sigh. Thanks, Amanda Gonna go scratch furiously at my eyes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rockworm 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2013 My first impression was that the two on the left look like elk. Since the properties of deer, elk, caribou, moose hair changes with the season this could account for the differences in strength. But in general I don't believe elk is a great deal weaker than deer. I can't really tell from the photo, but it could be that the one on the far left and maybe even the center patch) has been bleached and the fiber strength has been compromised. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wavey1988 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2013 I'm allergic to no other animal hair. But deer hair makes my eyes itch, and backs my nose up, something awful. I've considered buying some surgical masks, for when I tie some patterns up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellgrammite 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2013 So much this, when I use this stuff. Hare's mask is so, so much worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellgrammite 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2013 My first impression was that the two on the left look like elk. Since the properties of deer, elk, caribou, moose hair changes with the season this could account for the differences in strength. But in general I don't believe elk is a great deal weaker than deer. I can't really tell from the photo, but it could be that the one on the far left and maybe even the center patch) has been bleached and the fiber strength has been compromised. Could be, yeah. The one is quite light, so may have been bleached, and they do seem like a less dense, more "light" hair. Maybe summer coat vs winter, or elk vs deer... not sure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Piker20 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2013 What thread are you tying with? I know your not a virgin tier but will cover the mistakes I made. Make 2 loose wraps before the tighter one. Try to untwist your thread so the pressure is across a wider area of hair. My shear 14/0 cuts if given half a chance but the benecchi thread is more kind to the hair. I buy hair labelled as comparadun hair. It is short like the R patch and fine hair. The hollow red deer I have I prefer for spinning and chopping. I know what you mean about sourcing the good stuff. My patch of comparadun hair is really good but I can't remember my source so I use it sparingly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairwing 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2013 My opinion .....there is absolutely no magic in fur and hair. I just wouldn't use the stuff if it bothered me. Go with feathers and synthetics. One of my best flies is a poly winged paradun with a body of flyrite dubbing. Here's some ideas and there are prolly too many to list, so go on a search......... https://www.google.com/search?q=poly+wing+caddis+pattern&rlz=1C1GGIE_enUS320US325&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=zrCrUab3LeKYyAHQh4D4AQ&ved=0CDMQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=677 https://www.google.com/search?q=poly+wing+parachute+pattern&rlz=1C1GGIE_enUS320US325&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=K7GrUYGmGOW-yQH8oIDYAw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=677 https://www.google.com/search?q=cdc+winged+fly+patterns&rlz=1C1GGIE_enUS320US325&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=qLGrUafQFYf4yAHLsYGQAg&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=677 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rockworm 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2013 My opinion .....there is absolutely no magic in fur and hair. I just wouldn't use the stuff if it bothered me. Go with feathers and synthetics. One of my best flies is a poly winged paradun with a body of flyrite dubbing. Well, I hate to open up this can of worms, but: IMHO there is plenty of magic in fur and hair and feathers. But that is a matter for another forum.... However, if you are having allergic reactions to one of the above you should address the problem logically. Most allergies to hair (cat, dog, rabbit, etc) are actually caused by proteins in dander or dried saliva attached to the hair. Wash the hair and the reaction should go away. (People who are allergic to hare's mask, for example, can work comfortably with Hareline Dubbin and other brands which sell washed hair.) Or, as Hellgrammite has suggested, wear protective gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellgrammite 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2013 I am using 6/0 Uni and 70 Ultra Thread for most of my tying, and now that you mention it, the Uni seems to cut much more than the UTC. I am not a "virgin" tyer, but I definately have a comfort zone, and deer hair winged patterns have always been outside it, which sucks; I love using them. I am gonna toss the elk/deer hair/whatever it is and hang onto my shorter deer hair for now, but in the meantime, I will tie a few of those poly wing caddis, and go test em out on some bluegills and little bass. I do my parachutes as poly wings, and I suppose parachutes are "good enough" for calm-water situations, or I can use CDC or emerger sorts. You'd think someone who uses poly yarn as much as I do (my spinners, parachutes, and emergers all use it) would have thought to make Caddis wings from it.... derp. That stuff comes in colors too. Thanks guys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellgrammite 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2013 My opinion .....there is absolutely no magic in fur and hair. I just wouldn't use the stuff if it bothered me. Go with feathers and synthetics. One of my best flies is a poly winged paradun with a body of flyrite dubbing. Well, I hate to open up this can of worms, but: IMHO there is plenty of magic in fur and hair and feathers. But that is a matter for another forum.... However, if you are having allergic reactions to one of the above you should address the problem logically. Most allergies to hair (cat, dog, rabbit, etc) are actually caused by proteins in dander or dried saliva attached to the hair. Wash the hair and the reaction should go away. (People who are allergic to hare's mask, for example, can work comfortably with Hareline Dubbin and other brands which sell washed hair.) Or, as Hellgrammite has suggested, wear protective gear. I can use the life cycle dubbing, which I think has animal hair in it, and it doesnt bug me. I also dont mind feathers a bit. Just animal hair on the hides. I wonder if it is like you said, or maybe even the chemicals they use to preserve the skin? I think someone mentioned that as a possible the last time I complained about deer hair. =P Ill give it a scrub and let it dry good, and see. Couple projects to test now! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilverCreek 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2013 2) I seem to have trouble finding useful hair. I have 3 pieces of deer hair ( I am poor, so cannot mail order a ton in hopes of getting a good patch). Yep, I know NOTHING about deer hair, other than I like how it works on dry flies. Here they be: Now, EHCs and comparaduns can both be made with 1 kind of hair, yes? Humor me here; one calls for deer hair, one for elk... they cant be that different, or are they? And is there some way that the hair is labeled so I can tell what I am getting? I know they sell it dyed, I hope? Basically, help me. What kind of hair do i Use on these things, and does it come dyed or bleached? I like these colors, kind of a tan, brown, and greyish, but I cant really use the tan or brown i have. Sigh. Thanks, Amanda As for sorting hair, read my post on sorting hair, near the bottom of this thread. http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=69829 Call Blue Ribbon Flies and tell them what you are going to tie. As for your allergies, try generic Claritin. For a more powerful drug, see your physician for a RX for 10 mg tablets of montelucast, the generic form of Singulair. Like all prescriptions, montelucast should be prescribed by your physician, who knows your medical history and drug interactions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montelukast Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairwing 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2013 My opinion .....there is absolutely no magic in fur and hair. I just wouldn't use the stuff if it bothered me. Go with feathers and synthetics. One of my best flies is a poly winged paradun with a body of flyrite dubbing. Well, I hate to open up this can of worms, but: IMHO there is plenty of magic in fur and hair and feathers. But that is a matter for another forum.... However, if you are having allergic reactions to one of the above you should address the problem logically. Most allergies to hair (cat, dog, rabbit, etc) are actually caused by proteins in dander or dried saliva attached to the hair. Wash the hair and the reaction should go away. (People who are allergic to hare's mask, for example, can work comfortably with Hareline Dubbin and other brands which sell washed hair.) Or, as Hellgrammite has suggested, wear protective gear. I have absolutely nothing against fur hair and feathers for tying flies, your opinion is noted. As fly tiers/fly fishermen some of us had to adapt for material shortages, environmental pressures and the ever increasing folks taking up the sport diminishing supplies and resources 40 years ago and I think we did a pretty good job. Human made material was a good solid substitute for existing patterns and also from the synthetics many new patterns came to be. Is there really a difference between muskrat and grey polypropylene? I don't have allergies and yet in my way of thinking if I had them I'd be damned to tie flies in a hazmat suit or medicate. To each his own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellgrammite 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2013 I remember that thread. Thank you Silver for the link. I never knew this much of deer hair. I'll try some poly probably, but this is a good resource to have book marked, thank you! For what its worth, according to your descriptions: The hair on the left is trash (I knew that) Its gone. It breaks between my thumbnail and finger easily. Hair in the center is the right consistency for comparaduns, but color is suboptimal cause of its longer tips. Ok. Flairs a bit when I pinch it. Ill use it for nymph tails or something. Hair on the right is perfect for EHCs. It doesnt flair at all, and its nice and fuzz free. Awesome, thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rockworm 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2013 Is there really a difference between muskrat and grey polypropylene? Is there a difference between Angelina and a blow-up doll? (Sorry, I know that lacks sensitivity and sophistication.) Somebody help me here: Is there a difference between --- and --- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites