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Half hitches mid-fly with a true rotary vise. Is there a better way?

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In Jim Cramer's new book "How to Become a Thinking Fly Tier", he argues against the use of half hitches mid-fly because it builds unnecessary bulk, and takes extra time. While I agree that it does absolutely nothing to improve a flies durability, while wrapping material via a true rotary vise how do you stop your thread from wrapping/unwrapping without a half hitch in your tying thread? Jim says he uses a non true rotary vise a majority of the time (Regal), so maybe he hasn't really thought this issue through. It did get me thinking that there might be a better way to use a true rotary vise to wrap materials without the use of half hitches to control the tying thread.

 

I had a few thoughts, I doubt they'd work, but maybe it will give some of you ideas:

 

1. Some stronger tape like duct tape, or electrical tape which could be removed after the material has been wrapped. I'm sure the residue from the tape could make this a messy process though.

 

2. A small rubber band, like the ones that are used on braces, slipped over the hook eye to hold your tying thread in place. This is a long shot, and might take more time than it's worth.

 


Does anyone have any ideas for a replacement for half hitches when tying with a true rotary vise?

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I use the bobbin cradle to hold the thread over directly out front of the hook eye. If using an especially curved hook the thread sometimes slips forward but with most hooks this works fine while I spin the vice.

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You could put a small o ring like you'd get at the orthodontist on the bobbin tube, place the tube over the eye of the hook n slide the o ring onto the eye/shank .

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Half hitches mid fly were a hang back from the days before vices. If I tier needed to put the fly down they would secure the fly with a half hitch. Now we use vices and bobbin holders: the hook not moving, and the bobbin holder providing weight to hold everything in place, makes them redundant.

 

Rotary tying is a, relatively, new thing (that's not true rotary tying has been around for many many years) the need for half hitches to stop the thread unravelling during rotary tying isn't really the same thing. Its purpose is to provide an anchor point in the rotating thread. I'm sure Jim Cramer wasn't meaning the half hitch used in rotary tying.

 

Cheers,

C.

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The return of the hook eye provides a small notch that you can catch the thread on. I just wind loosely to the eye, catch the thread on that notch, and loop it over the bobbin cradle. Works like a champ.

 

On bead head nymphs, though, the bead gets in the way. For those, I slip a single half hitch behind the bead to hold the thread.

 

Think before you throw a half hitch, but if a half hitch helps, throw the half hitch. One of two extra half hitches don't add significant bulk to the fly.

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can anybody describe how much bulk is added to a fly by using 1-2 half-hitches?

 

if i just wrapped a streamers length of tinsel, you can better believe i'm going to throw in a half hitch regardless of jim cramers opinion

 

(yes i have been reading the book and somethings i disagree with)

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Now we use vices and bobbin holders: the hook not moving, and the bobbin holder providing weight to hold everything in place, makes them redundant.

like i mentioned above, you just wrapped a streamer length of tinsel and its being held by the weight of the bobbin holder. while reaching for the next material to be tied on, you hit the bobbin holder and the thread holding down the tinsel is jolted and the tinsel unwraps back to the bend.

 

with 1 redundant half hitch this would not happen.

 

shit happens in life and in fly tying as well

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I happen to agree with flytire on this...I will use half hitches to bombproof my flies. Mr. Cramer may have been tying for 60+ years and he is welcome to his opinion but I would bet he hasn't used Tiemco 16/0 or Veevus 16/0 - yet...bulk, I don't think so...

 

...and on the durability factor...

 

http://www.dorber.com/F4.html

 

Scroll down...

 

 

PT/TB

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Go watch some Nor-vise videos on you tube. I have seen a small piece of rubber tubing that is stored on the bobbin, slid off the bobbin, down the thread and on to the fly. When done spinning, you return the tubing piece back to the bobbin. And yes, your thread is always running through the tubing piece. I do a half hitch my self. It only take 2 seconds.

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I agree entirely. One half hitch is basically just one full extra thread wrap. It doesn't add much bulk at all. I can tie a one handed half hitch in less than a few seconds, so time isn't much of a factor for me either.

 

What I do really dislike about half hitches is when I'm in a hurry I'll sometimes pull the wire ribbing out, or break one of my pieces of peacock herl. I could just double back and re tie in my material, but that does add bulk. In situations like this, I usually just grab my Bodkin and try to untie the half hitch to start over. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it takes too much time.

 

I have been experimenting this morning with a few different ideas. I tied up some western coachman's which require 2 materials (peacock herl and a wire rib) be wrapped via the rotary function of my vise.

 

I tried using a very small piece of tape. First I wrapped my thread all the way to the eye of the hook, pulled the thread over the top of the eye, and put my bobbin in the bobbin holder. Then I would tape right over the eye of the hook, holding the thread in place. This method as expected, is way more trouble than its worth. I did however stumble across a very simple method that so far has worked perfectly! Instead of using tape I wrap to the eye just like before only this time I lock the thread in place with the actual eye of the hook. I slip it in the small opening of the hook eye and it stayed perfectly in place while I wrapped my materials. When you need to tie off the material being wrapped, just unwrap the few wraps of thread, tie off the material, and you're done!

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I agree entirely. One half hitch is basically just one full extra thread wrap. It doesn't add much bulk at all. I can tie a one handed half hitch in less than a few seconds, so time isn't much of a factor for me either.

 

 

Exactly my thinking, as well. I approach fly tying from my experience as a largely warm water tyer, and I can tell you this: having your thread break 3/4 of the way through a deer hair bass bug is not a time when you wish you had thrown in some half hitches, it's when you thank the Lord you did. Even with Orvis G thread and Ultra GSP I have still had thread breaks. It's not common but it happens. And when it does, everything since your last half hitch is basically lost. I'm sure with dainty trout flies, extra thread bulk could be a bad thing. But then again, so are migraines, and they can be caused by having an hour's worth of tying go up in a puff of deer hair. ;)

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I think the need to apply half hitches when employing rotary tying techniques is exaggerated. When thread is wrapped reasonably tightly, with each successive wrap placed in front of and advancing toward the hook eye, the thread shouldn't wander off the hook shank.

 

However, half hitches can provide a bit of extra security when tying off materials that may quickly unravel or be difficult to reattach should you inadvertently knock the bobbin holder. As stated already, half hitches made with modern threads don't create bulk. So use them as often as you think they benefit your tying. Sometimes they're a good safeguard, but they're not always necessary.

 

To use your example of the western coachman, you might consider not using the bobbin rest at all. Keep your thread at the peacock tie-in point, half hitch if you wish, gently pull the herl inline with the thread and hold it against the thread with a pinch. If you wrap your peacock traditionally (without twisting), just rotate the vise while the thread wraps with the herl to form the body. If you'd rather twist your herl, hold the herl and thread together horizontally inline with and in front of the hook while rotating the vise to twist the peacock and herl together, then move the twisted group back perpendicular to the shank and continue rotating to form the body.

 

As for the rib, consider allowing the thread to dangle off the body tie-off point while rotating the rib material on the body. It's only four or five turns of rib with a resulting equal number of turns of thread. If you think the extra few turns of thread created undesirable bulk, you can very quickly unwrap some or all of them before tying off your rib. You've now employed the vise's rotary ability to build a body with rib without fussing with the bobbin rest at all (and I think it's that movement of the bobbin rest that robs efficiency).

 

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well a western coachman is a wet fly so i wouldnt worry too much bulk under the body of herl and ribbing wire

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I was tying western coachmans because you need to wrap two different materials to make the body. I was there for able to test 2 different half hitch replacement methods per fly to see which ones worked and which ones didn't. I'm definitely not worried about bulk, this was just an experiment that I decided to use the western coachman for. I could have been tying size #20 pheasant tail nymphs, or size #22 zebra midges just the same, I just happen to need coachmans.

 

I am looking for replacements for the half hitch when wrapping materials with a true rotary vise only. Of course there are still applications where a half hitch is the best option, i.e. Spinning deer hair, tinsel body on a streamer, etc.

 

Pretty sure I've figured it out now though, as piker20 says above you can lay the thread over the hook eye and it stays good enough. I think for upturned eyes I will try putting the thread in the opening between the hook eye and hook shank.

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Neither the vise, nor the bobbin rest, nor the thread know or care which direction the eye is angled. The method that works for down-eye will work for up-eye equally.

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