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m_grieb

It just doesn't make sense.

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It just doesn't make sense.

 

There, you just described 99% of fly tying. It is a creative outlet, and does not have to "make sense".

 

Because each one of our brains works differently (some work VERY differently...) in a creative or artistic context, what "makes sense" to you doesn't to someone else. I look at most "artwork" and see a load of crap. Regarding flies, if something in a pattern doesn't make sense to you, just don't do it.

 

We could get along just fine for the rest of time with 14 or 15 patterns which would catch nearly any fish, any where, any time. Even the Holy Most Worshipful Trout. That would "make sense" but it would be very boring.

 

I have taken to tying all my palmer-hackled flies with a wire, thread, or other rib tied in at the tail, then the hackle tied in at the head and wrapped back with the ribbing counter-wrapped forward. I tied, fished and caught truckloads of fish over the years with hackles tied in at the tail and wrapped forward with no rib. I had extremely few hackle failures. So really there is no sensible reason for me to tie with a different style now, other than I just seem to like it better.

 

You've touched on this before and I cant help but nod in agreement. All too often it seems tyers get hung up on right and wrong. Truth is, as you mention, there is no right or wrong. If you dont like the wire, leave it out!! its the beauty of fly tying. I'm the type that has a hard time sticking to a pattern. Hell, even my own patterns vary all the time. I suppose now that I think of it I do the same thing while cooking!!

 

Im not a trout guy really, so I cant add much to the usefullness of the wire. Most of the fish I fish for are predators and have lots of teeth. To combat it, I use certain methods of tying to prolong the fly (reversing bucktail, superglue, etc) but inevitably the fly will be shredded. Just gives me an opportunity to go back to the vise and make another one!

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It just doesn't make sense.

 

There, you just described 99% of fly tying. It is a creative outlet, and does not have to "make sense".

 

Because each one of our brains works differently (some work VERY differently...) in a creative or artistic context, what "makes sense" to you doesn't to someone else. I look at most "artwork" and see a load of crap. Regarding flies, if something in a pattern doesn't make sense to you, just don't do it.

 

We could get along just fine for the rest of time with 14 or 15 patterns which would catch nearly any fish, any where, any time. Even the Holy Most Worshipful Trout. That would "make sense" but it would be very boring.

 

I have taken to tying all my palmer-hackled flies with a wire, thread, or other rib tied in at the tail, then the hackle tied in at the head and wrapped back with the ribbing counter-wrapped forward. I tied, fished and caught truckloads of fish over the years with hackles tied in at the tail and wrapped forward with no rib. I had extremely few hackle failures. So really there is no sensible reason for me to tie with a different style now, other than I just seem to like it better.

 

You've touched on this before and I cant help but nod in agreement. All too often it seems tyers get hung up on right and wrong. Truth is, as you mention, there is no right or wrong. If you dont like the wire, leave it out!! its the beauty of fly tying. I'm the type that has a hard time sticking to a pattern. Hell, even my own patterns vary all the time. I suppose now that I think of it I do the same thing while cooking!!

 

Im not a trout guy really, so I cant add much to the usefullness of the wire. Most of the fish I fish for are predators and have lots of teeth. To combat it, I use certain methods of tying to prolong the fly (reversing bucktail, superglue, etc) but inevitably the fly will be shredded. Just gives me an opportunity to go back to the vise and make another one!

Very sound advice. I agree 100%. The fish are the ones who decide what is right and wrong, and they have a brain the size of a pea.

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Another POV....


Some of the flies in your box have wire ribs, some don't, does it matter? No it's your box!


Let's say you are a pro tyer and make an agreement to tie 100 dozen "whatever flies" with a fly shop. The fly shop gives you a pattern for the "whatever fly" and you prepare yourself at the bench for the grueling task ahead of you and decide to value engineer the pattern and eliminate the wings because you feel they aren't necessary.


A month of tying and you let a sigh of relief and your done. Presenting your flies to the shop owner he looks and immediately asks, "Were's the wings"?


Ought o, guess what? He ain't a gonna buy 'em! Your bad man.


That's why you put wire rib on some EHC and some you don't.


Make any sense?

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Another POV....
Some of the flies in your box have wire ribs, some don't, does it matter? No it's your box!
Let's say you are a pro tyer and make an agreement to tie 100 dozen "whatever flies" with a fly shop. The fly shop gives you a pattern for the "whatever fly" and you prepare yourself at the bench for the grueling task ahead of you and decide to value engineer the pattern and eliminate the wings because you feel they aren't necessary.
A month of tying and you let a sigh of relief and your done. Presenting your flies to the shop owner he looks and immediately asks, "Were's the wings"?
Ought o, guess what? He ain't a gonna buy 'em! Your bad man.
That's why you put wire rib on some EHC and some you don't.
Make any sense?

yes being a commercial tier, I know exactly what you mean.

 

matt

 

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OPAL X CADDIS: Materials in order: Standard shank or 1 XS shank dry fly hook. 10/0 Veevus thread. Small bit of tan poly yarn, you can also use cream or amber antron. Flashabou, or crystal flash (opal pearl color.) Elk or deer hair. Tie the deer hair shorter than the hook shank. Head is trimmed out like a tiny muddler.

 

I start the thread, and tie in the shuck (only at the front.) then tie the opal flash over the same spot. Wrap the flash back over the shuck to over the point of the barb, then reverse and wind the flash forward. At this point i coat with thinned flex cement. You could tie in a very fine mono rib to reinforce the body, but I like to coat with cement. When the body is dry, tie in the wing keeping it a little short of the bend of the hook. Wind you thread through the hair butts, and whip finish while holding the hair butt back. Then trim the head.

 

The wing on this one came out a little longer than I like, but it will still work. I leave the shuck the same length as the body, and trim if necessary, but I haven't ever needed to trim mine shorter.

 

I found the pattern in Fly Tyer a few years ago. Its been a very successful pattern for me. So much so that I have stopped tying elk hair caddis at all.

post-12074-0-00992700-1377273423_thumb.jpg

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Thanks very much Utyer; your description and photo make it very clear. I will definitely be whipping up a few of these.

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I tend to do the old tie in at the rear and palmer forward without counter ribbing on EHC's. Ill admit I do counter rib some flies - pheasant tail nymphs for example... but I'm not really sure overall how much of a difference it makes.

 

I will say I've experimented on larger hackled flies like big stimulators or wooly buggers with basically twisting the hackle around the thread, then wrapping that up the body. On bushy applications like those, it's worked well in execution, but I dont know that it's actually helped the fly last any longer.

 

Will

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I agree with you.

 

I prefer the X-caddis to the elk hair caddis. When Al Troth invented the EHC, not much was known about caddis emergers. Al Troth designed the EHC to float on riffles and rougher water, and to simulate the adult caddis coming back to lay eggs. Most caddis do not stay on the water after emerging; but they have an emerger stage and that is what the X-caddis imitates.

 

Another BRF pattern, the iris caddis, imitates an earlier stage of caddis emergence. I tie and fish both.

 

This is a bit off topic but did you know that the original Al Troth EHC did not use copper wire but "fine gold wire"? The pattern and photo of the ORIGINAL pattern is in Larry Solomon and Eric Leiser's "The Caddis and the Angler" published in 1977. The hair caddis pattern and photo are on pg 200. You will notice that the hair on the pattern is tent like and does NOT flair much.

 

Al Troth, when he first published his EHC, noted that it should be tied with hair that did not flair, but this type of hair is difficult to find especially for smaller patterns. Current versions of the EHC use hollow deer hair and now virtually every EHC now is tied with a prominent flared wing. This results in a higher and more upright wing. The current patterns are better for fluttering caddis patterns but they are not good imitations of caddis on the water which have their wings folded over their body.

 

See below for Al Troth's original EHC:

 

EHC-AlTroth.jpg

 

Gary Lafontaine makes the following observation about the dry fly patterns in his book, Caddisflies. "There are some notable absences in the selections. There are no patterns with upright wings. This type generally recommended as an imitation of a fluttering caddisfly is not very effective when trout are feeding selectively, even if the adults are fluttering. When the natural begins unfolding its wings it usually flies off very quickly and such a transitory moment is not worth imitating. The tent wing fly is usually better because it imitates the insect at rest."

 

TAke a look at these images of EHC, and virtually NONE of them are tied as Al Troth intended.

 

EHC Photos

 

Here is a tying tip to make the wings flatter. If you dub the body so that it has a "reverse taper" so that it is thicker at the tail of the fly and then narrows at the head end of the fly, the wing will lie flatter on the body. Then there will be no "bump" at the front edge of the dubbing to lift the wing up.

 

If all you have are high profile EHCs, there is away to make the fly ride lower and more realistically on flatter water. Cut the bottom hackles off at the body so only there are no downward facing hackles. You will get more trout to take this 'low riding" caddis.

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread. If the above makes you examine how you tie the EHC and how the wing really should look, all the better. Hopefully, the next time you try an EHC in the right color and size and the fish refuse, you'll think about this post and trim the fly.

 

Best wishes to everyone.

 

 

Well if you want to just futz with the pattern, why not omit the hackle and wire altogether? That's how we ended up with the X-caddis...

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Hackle stems have a natrual taper. The farther into the pamler the smaller the diameter of the hackle. By tying in at the tips you you create a taper from front to back. While this dosent genrally matter in extreme cases (i.e long pamlered hackle, or very short hackle) it does have an effect on how the fly sits on the water and the profile of the fly when veiwed from underneath.

 

This problem could simply be fixed by tying in the hackle from tip rather then the butt, however some tyers have problems doing that, and if a fish cuts the stem then the hackle is done.

 

By tying in hackle at the front and rib in the back, we can get get a proper taper and the added strength of wire. It only take 10 seconds, if that, to tie in a rib and another 10 seconds to wrap it around. For the strength it adds thats not a big sacrafice. Ive had the hackles destroyed on too many stimulators to not use a rib.

 

As for tying rib and hackle at the back we end up back at the first problem, unless your tying in the hackle from the tip.

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At the tail, tie in the hackle by the tip. At the head, tie in the hackle by the butt. I ASSumed this was a given.

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Sense! Sense?

 

The beginning premise is that you are going to all this trouble and expense to catch a fish that you most likely will release.

 

Why should the details of the process make sense when you leave it the door as the entry price?

 

1B

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Silver Creek,

Thanks for sharing that information. I am always interested in the origins of famous flies and seeing how they evolve over time.

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I've been tying for years now and when tying elk hair caddis, I have never used the copper ribbing like some people do. What is the point of the copper ribbing? Wouldn't it just add more unneeded weight? That is why I've never done it. What do you all think is the purpose?

Two reasons for using copper wire for ribbing.

1. Because it adds a bit of flash and I do think it adds a bit of weight, which is sometimes just the right thing to get the strikes.

2. It's the Wife's favorite color, and she loves it when I am tying flies that she thinks are pretty.

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