ezmoneychuck 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2013 I am new to fly fishing. I have a 9' 4 weight Clearwater pole that I received as a present. It has 4 weight forward floating line with 6' tapered leader and 3' tippet What is the largest fly I can cast with this? I tried casting a #10 streamer and could only cast maybe 30' at the very max, and then the whole leader/tippet/fly comes down in a big pile... Any help would be appreciated Chuck Arroyo Grande Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randyflycaster 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2013 Hard to say. Each caster is different, but when I'm casting a #10 streamer I like to use a 6- or 7-weight rod. Also, I think one of the biggest mistakes beginning fly casters make is allowing slack to form between their hands. Assuming you're not hauling, one way to avoid this is too keep your hands close to each other during the cast. The other way is to make sure they at least move in-sync during the cast. (For example, make sure you don't begin your forward cast by moving your rod hand before you move your line hand.) BTW, are you hauling? Learning the double haul will make things easier, just make sure you always finish your upward haul with your line hand up to your rod hand. Randy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bryon Anderson 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2013 Your question is difficult to answer -- it would be easier if we knew the breaking strength/diameter of the tippet on your leader (usually expressed as a number followed by an "X", e.g. 3X, 4X etc.). The larger the number in front of the "X", the smaller the diameter and breaking strength of the tippet. A good rule of thumb is sometimes referred to as the "Rule of 4", which says you take the size of the fly you want to fish and divide by 4 to get the size tippet that is appropriate. For example, if you wanted to fish a size 16 fly, 16 divided by 4 is 4, so you would use a 4x tippet. This isn't a foolproof system, but it usually gets you in the ballpark. As you are just learning to cast, I would use the Rule of 4 and not worry too much about fly size; focus instead on polishing your casting technique, because that is what's really going to determine how far and how accurately you can cast. It's also worth mentioning that, at least in fresh water, 90% of the fish you cast to will be no more than 30 feet away, and often much, much less. Learn to cast 30 feet accurately, then work on adding distance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilverCreek 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2013 The tippet must be matched to the fly. For a streamer, you do not need a long tippet because you are not going to fish it with a drag free drift. Long tippets are used to create slack on the cast and the problem you are describing is TOO much slack. To get the "X" size of the tippet, I tell beginner to divide the hook size by 4 and for better casters to divide the hook size by 3. For a size 10 fly, you should but that leader back to 2X. I teach beginners NOT to keep their hands together while casting. Each hand should be independent. There are several reasons for this. The first is that if you keep your hands together, you will be forced to turn your body because the line hand will have to follow the rod hand on the back cast. It will also restrict how far back you can take your casting arm and hand. This body turn will also cause the rod tip to move in an slight arc around your body. For a right handed caster the rod tip will arc to the right and on the forward cast, it will arc back to the left. This will result is a left curve on the delivery rather than a straight cast. If you shoot line with the hands together, a loop of fly line can get wrapped around the rod handle or reel on the loop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randyflycaster 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2013 Slivercreek, I'm sorry to disagree, but I don't see how keeping my hands together causes all that. I've tried casting many ways, and when I'm not hauling I often keep my hands together - if I don't I sometimes forget to move them in-sync - and don't have any problems. Then again, there are different strokes for different folks. My two cents, Randy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytire 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2013 i dont use the hands together method when casting i cast with my right hand and hold/control the line with my left hand. never had a problem casting that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilverCreek 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2013 From the FFF Casting Clinic by Al Kyte: "A stationary line hand has worked best for me, but held off to the side away from the casting arm, rather than in front, where the hands would come together, so I teach holding the line close to your front pants pocket on the line-hand side. This position keeps the line hand approximately the same distance from the stripping guide throughout the casting stroke that I teach, thus maintaining line tension (Figure 1). When you learn the double haul, your well-timed pulls with the line hand will further increase your control of this line." The False Cast and Line Hand - Al Kyte.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikechell 0 Report post Posted October 19, 2013 I am new to fly fishing. I have a 9' 4 weight Clearwater pole that I received as a present.It has 4 weight forward floating line with 6' tapered leader and 3' tippet What is the largest fly I can cast with this? I tried casting a #10 streamer and could only cast maybe 30' at the very max, and then the whole leader/tippet/fly comes down in a big pile... Any help would be appreciated Chuck Arroyo Grande I am trying to teach a friend how to fly fish right now. I told him two aspects of casting. When he remembers these, everything works ... when he doesn't, he gets the same result you mentioned. 1. The motion: Start with the rod tip low and all slack removed from the line (Rod tip pointed at the fly, line straight out from rod tip) Then, in one motion, lift the line by bringing the rod up and snap the rod to 12 o'clock to send it behind you, pause, then cast. step by step: Point, lift, snap, pause then cast. 2. Forget the fly placement until after you learn to cast ... WATCH YOUR ROD TIP !!! You'll be able to quit watching your rod tip when you keep stopping the snap at 12 o'clock. The back cast is critical to getting a good forward cast. The pause is required to get the line straight out behind you to load the rod for casting. WATCH YOUR ROD TIP when you are practice casting ... You'll see it stop at 12, and you'll see you line play out behind you as it should. It's easy to see where you are loosing the casting energy if you do this. The line pools up because it's lost all forward energy or momentum. I cast everything from small scuds and foam poppers to large streamers on 5'6" to 9' 5 weight rods. Only one of them has 7 weight line on it and that just helps when I am casting during windy conditions. Good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilverCreek 0 Report post Posted October 21, 2013 Here are a series of videos: These videos form a basic series of lesson from one of the best casting instructors, the late Mel Krieger. He was a mentor to Steve Rajeff. From "The Essence of Fly Casting" instruction video by Mel Krieger Essence Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW1C5jxL48E&feature=related Essence Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08v8VkqVQjw&feature=related Roll cast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy23B_MYwsA Pick up and Lay down Cast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkmo4X-mJeQ False Cast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsBtxC751oc Double haul: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcE-9WPuZ04 Backcast with Steve Rajeff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv8xFgnnnxo Rod Loading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq9PYeXtH8I Lastly, read the following casting threads to get a greater understanding of what goes into a fly cast. They are chock full of information on what happens during a fly cast. http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/fly-rods/329474-casting-style-action-preference.html http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/fly-cast/260476-beginner-different-technique-slow-rod.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hopperfisher 0 Report post Posted October 23, 2013 2 WORDS: CASTING LESSONS!!!! They're worth every penny that you spending on them. I won a raffle years ago for a private 1 hour casting lesson from the man himself, Lefty Kreh, and he had me casting 70 feet in 15 minutes only with the 2 tip sections of the rod he had. Understandably, I was very lucky to hav won that lesson but go to your local fly shop because most offer lessons on everything from bug ID to casting lessons or can point you the right way. I'll say it again, WORTH EVERY PENNY!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spinninBugs 0 Report post Posted November 6, 2013 Nobody has really answered your question. It sounds like you want specific casting advice for heavy flies and not just how to cast better. First thing first, can you double haul? On heavy flies you definitely need to wait until the fly has reached the farthest point during the backcast and then there is a moment when the streamer loads the rod. At this moment when there is no slack in the line you will want to start the forward cast (preferably a double haul). If you have a lot of water behind, it helps to let the streamer hit the water on the backcast as well, this also loads the rod. I hope this helps with casting your heavy and larger flies. I feel each type of fly has a different casting stroke and tempo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saltybum 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2013 Definitely learning to double haul and you MUST let your backcast straighten out as spininBugs stated. Don't be afraid to turn around and watch it to make sure it does. Then you'll get used to how it feels when it loads the rod. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LP ID 66 0 Report post Posted November 8, 2013 I think it depends I would guess a double haul and I am not sure if you are holding your back cast long enough. A four weight also might be too light for a heavy streamer but its really hard to say without seeing it and you casting. I think a 6 or 7 weight would help you out a lot I only use my three weight for dries maybe a small nymph dropper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites