Renzetti Master or 4000?

[RJD31 0]

I am thinking about purchasing a Renzetti Presentation 4000 or Master Vise. I would like input from owners of these vises. Do you think the master is worth the extra money over the 4000? Thanks.

 

Ron

[AKRuss 0]

I bought a Traveler when they first came out and liked it but traded it for the studier 4000 and have never regretted it. I upgraded the 4000 vise from a thumb screw to a cam type jaw. The 4000 does everything I could possibly want a vise to do. I have also been looking at the Master vise. However, I frankly can't see anything that the Master would do better than a 4000. The Master has more adjustments and all but I don't really need anymore. If I was buying a vise cold turkey (no pun intended) I'd probably go with the Master but since I already have a 4000, I doubt I'll trade up. You really can't go wrong with either. Hmm, this probably doesn't help you much ...

[rotaryflytyingdotcom 0]

RJD31,

A lot of that answer depends on what you tie and the frequency of your tying. I have owned both vises for years and regularly tie on both. Actually I tie regularly on several different Renzetti vises as I have been a Renzetti dealer since the 80’s and tried each new model as they came out and I keep switching them out to stay familiar with the differences between the models.

 

There’s no doubt the Master is the more versatile of the two. A quick peek at the specs shows that the hook range for the Series 4000 is size 28 to 4/0 and the hook range for the Master Series is 28 to 10/0. Both vises will clamp the upper limit of their hook range well enough for you to bend the shank of the hook before the hook will slip in the jaws.

 

So, there’s the obvious difference. Maybe not enough to justify the extra $200 but there are other differences that come out once you start tying. The first is the pivot joint in the bent shaft. My initial reaction to this pivot joint was sort of ho-hum. The pivot joint makes the jaw and hook alignment adjustment simple and easy but that alignment had never been much of an issue for me so I didn’t think it was a big deal. But then I switched from tying saltwater patterns to a standard mayfly pattern and that was all it took to bring the genius of that pivot joint front and center.

 

Had I been tying on the Series 4000 a hook size swap like that would have required the removal of a screw and repositioning of the jaws. A quick change but a frequent one if your tying regularly switching between large and small hooks. No need to remove a screw to reposition the Master Series jaws – using the pivot joint you simply slide the jaws into an accommodating position and start tying with perfect hook shank alignment.

 

Another innovation that ranks up near the genius of the pivot joint is the Master Series material clip. That material clip is the only one I have that easily holds more than one item. The material clip for the other Renzetti vises will grip something if you spread the spring and put the material right at the edge of the spring and the spring mount.

 

However, the material clip on the Master Series will hold material anywhere along the length of the spring. Again it doesn’t seem like a major difference but it is. How big a difference becomes apparent when you start a Spey fly and realize your material clip has to hold flat tinsel ribbing material, oval tinsel ribbing material and a ribbing hackle feather. That’s a lot to ask of the Series 4000 material clip and just another job for the Master Series.

 

Additionally, the Master Series Vise has dual ball bearing rotation and the most sensitive rotary tension adjustment of any vise I’ve tied with. The rotary tension adjustment for most true rotary vises is a threaded nylon screw that flattens against the rotating shaft causing friction, which holds the shaft in place when you stop it. The tip of any threaded nylon screw can flatten if over tightened when trying to lock the rotating shaft is a desired position. Flattening of the tip can cause uneven rotating tension and possible slippage of the rotating shaft when positioning the hook for tying.

 

That can’t happen with the brass rotary tension clamping system that adjusts the rotary tension of the Master Series vise. You can lock the rotating shaft as tightly as need for any particular application and with a simple twist free the rotating shaft for normal use without worrying about damaging the tension screw or the rotating shaft. Another Master Series innovation that isn't a must but is a help. And that's the key to the Master Series - everything it does it does just a little better than the other vises - and those little things add to your tying enjoyment.

 

So those are the quick difference of the top of my head. Feel free to post back with any questions, as I’m sure some of this isn’t as clear as it could be.

[RiverHunter 0]

Like Mike just said, I love my Master, and it does make life easier if you switch between hook sizes a lot. You don't even have to be going from a size 18 to a size 4/0. Just going up to a size 4 for buggers would need the jaw to be adjusted. I figure it's just a matter of time before I lose that screw on my traveler vise! With the Master it's a 10 second adjustment The quality of the materials will last several life times. To me it's worth the extra $. I plan to add the speed crank soon. Then it will be like having a "HEMI"

 

When I first bought mine (with deluxe SW base) I thought I lost my mind! Seven months later? You would have a hard time getting me to part with it. I would be selling off a lot of other things before the Master leaves my tying room

[AKRuss 0]

You guys maybe costing me big bucks, LOL.

[RiverHunter 0]

Like the old saying goes, "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later". Either way you know you want one!

[phg 0]

I have the 4000 with the saltwater base. Best fly tying investment I've ever made. If you have the money to spare, I don't think you'll regret buying the Master. On the other hand, if things are a bit tight, you won't really regret getting the 4000 either. They are both quality tools.

 

I like my Traveler for traveling, but it's not in the same class, and, given my druthers, I'd tie on the 4000 all the time.

[RJD31 0]

I purchased a special edition master vise, so my Traveler will now be utilized only for traveling purposes. Thanks for everyone's input.

 

Ron

[RiverHunter 0]

SWEET

[redwing 0]

Hi Rotaryflytyingdot,

 

I was thinking about the 3000 vice. I have the 4000 but when I ty 20 and smaller flies my fingers get in the way of the small screw at the top of the jaw. I ty alot of small flies and just wanted you thoughts. I my look at HMH also

 

Thanks

Redwing

[rotaryflytyingdotcom 0]

Redwing,

The 3000 is MY vise. Given a choice it's the one I'm tying on. I use other vises Renzetti makes to stay familiar with the different features but my bench at home and my bench at camp have 3000's on them. I bought my first one in around 1980 and it still works fine - it's the one I have at home. The newer one is at camp and the differences are slight.

 

The older style came with three jaw sets that you could change out for different height (gap width) hooks thereby maintaining true rotary alignment. The newer (present) design has a small set screw that lets you slide the head assembly up and down for different height hooks. The truth be known I rarely adjust for hook height.

 

I pretty much leave the vise set up for small hooks. As I move to larger hooks (including streamer hooks) I just set the hook lower in the jaws. It works fine for me unless I'm tying a streamer with a tag. Then I have to set the hook higher in the jaws and put up with the hook wobble or change out my jaws. I usually put up with the wobble since it is slight.

 

You'll love the hook clearance when tying with the 3000. I haven't tied on any vise that can match it. But as much as I love the clearance provided by the jaw design I surprisingly love the BIG knob on the bottom that tightens the jaws as much as the clearance above the shaft. I tie with my thread in my right hand and often have my left hand doing something like keeping my ribbing from trapping things it shouldn't. With my left hand at the bend of the hook and my eyeballs glued on the hook that big knob down below is easy to find with the fingertips of my left hand when I want to rotate the jaws.

 

When I'm folding hackles on streamer collars or something similar on small flies it's rare for me to reach back to the lever at the end of the vise to rotate the jaws. Instead with my left hand at the hook bend where I need it I just reach down and push the jaw assembly with the fingers of my left hand. Love that big easy to find knob. Love that vise - have two of them.

[redwing 0]

Hi Rotaryflytyingdotcom,

 

I just order a 3000 on your advise. Thank you.

 

Redwing

[rotaryflytyingdotcom 0]

You're welcome. I'd love to see a post from you after you've tied on it for awhile.

[Phish 0]

Like the old saying goes, "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later". Either way you know you want one!

That quote is right on the money!

It costs me a hundreds more now since I held off way to long playing with a bunch other good vises on the market.

Just buy it and get it out of your head! and you will be happy happy happy!

[Phish 0]

Another vote for the 3000!

I regrettably don't own any more. Most of my tying is big bass and muskie flies so big hooks are the rules for my Masters.