rotaryflytyingdotcom 0 Report post Posted December 6, 2013 Questions like this give me a reason for all the space in my tying room dedicated to books. The quotes below are about as through an answer as I could find. I get the idea there is no hard and fast definition rather there's a general concept that varies over time and from region to region. To paraphrase "I might not be able to tell you what a North County Spider is but I know one when I see one" I looked in “Tying & Fishing Soft-Hackled Nymphs” by Allen McGee ( a favorite book) and here are some quotes from his book: Page 11: James Chetham of Smedley anonymously published The Angler’s Vade Mecum in 1681. The book was later enlarged and re-printed in 1689. In reference to North Country spiders Chetam wrote about the use of game birds for hackle collars instead of only poultry feathers and while many of his fly patterns were winged wet flies he also listed some familiar North Country spider recipes. Chetam may also have been the first to write about spinning fur on silk to form fly bodies where an undercolor of silk would show the fur creating the translucent body effect many aquatic insects have. Later – also on page 11: In 1857, W.C. Stewart’s The Practical Angler came out. This work is considered important; as it is evident that Stewart was ahead of his time in both his knowledge of trout behavior and stream approach. He fished his soft-hackle patterns using upstream dry-fly methods both to achieve a natural float and to keep his presence concealed. Stewart is best known for introducing us to his palmered spiders presenting directions for tying and fishing three of these flies: the Dun Spider, the Black Spider, and the Red Spider. These flies are tied very sparse with the body consisting of only silk thread on top of which the hackle is palmered from the center of the hook shank up to the hook eye. The three palmered sections represent the three thoracic leg segments of the natural insects and the colors they are tie in imitate the most commonly found trout-stream aquatic insects. The sparseness of these patterns belies their effectiveness. And still later now on page 12: The North Country flies were originally developed to be fished in fast-water highland streams that had few rises from trout. Northern streams were generally freestone, more turbulent and less fertile than the chalk streams, and the anglers who fished them needed to resort to different tactics other than dry flies because the trout didn’t rise as freely as on the more placid spring creeks to the south. Out of necessity, the North Country flies were invented to be fished in the surface film or just under the surface. As a result, anglers were discovering that more fish could be caught by fishing their flies deeper because the fish were conditioned to finding their food sub-surface. The defining characteristic of these patterns is their sparseness. Their bodies were not of fur but of silk floss, sometimes with a fur thorax, wire ribbing, and a very sparse turn of soft hackle. The success of these flies was impressive. These patterns did wonderful job of imitation emerging nymphs. Stillborns, adults, or even drowned mayflies. The soft-hackled spiders were fished upstream with line held off the water using a long rod to avoid drag. The dry-fly purist of southern England however were not taken with the idea of a fly that didn’t imitate the fully emerged adult and avoided using spiders even though they were outfished by the northern anglers. The anglers who fished the soft hackles were know as the North Country school and it took a while before the popularity of their patterns spread. There are around a hundred page of well researched information packed into this book by Allen McGee. Not only did he write the book he took the wonderful photos. If you tie soft hackles take a look at this book. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randyflycaster 0 Report post Posted December 7, 2013 Thanks again. I'll check out the McGee book. I just ordered - from England - Fly Fishing: The North Country Tradition. Randy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairwing 0 Report post Posted December 7, 2013 Al McClane types out the definition in his great book "The Practical Fly Fisherman" 1953. (pg. 150 if you have a copy)....."The spider-type dry fly is strictly an American innovation. On foreign waters the term "spider" means a long-hackled wet fly....." Take note that one is a "dry fly" and one is a "wet fly". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tidewaterfly 0 Report post Posted December 7, 2013 Thanks for the replies to my question too guys! I never used the dry fly versions, but do remember seeing them in old Orvis catalogs (late 60's early 70's)! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randyflycaster 0 Report post Posted December 9, 2013 Anyone know any websites that list a lot of spider fly recipes? Can't seem to find too many. Randy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rotaryflytyingdotcom 0 Report post Posted December 9, 2013 Randy, I know you asked for a website but if you don't find one the book Year of the Spider is still 99-cents on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Year-Spider-Philip-Storey-ebook/dp/B00GKX52K4 Some good ones in there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dcap240 0 Report post Posted December 9, 2013 Did you try the FTF pattern database? Type in spider in the search bar and a lot of great patterns come up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crackaig 0 Report post Posted December 9, 2013 Be careful of the on line sources for patterns. There are many awful examples touted, especially in videos. You would be better getting hold of the books where you can. Cheers, C. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randyflycaster 0 Report post Posted December 9, 2013 Yes, I saw some patterns in the FTF Database. Thanks. The problem with the patterns in The Year of the Spider and Yorkshire Flies is that most of the hackle I don't have. I'm tying with hen and partridge, though I just ordered a starling skin. Randy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Hat 0 Report post Posted December 9, 2013 Hi Randy. It is fun to try and tie the classic spider patterns. North country and others. But remember, most of these fisherman were tying with what they had available to mimic the insects they were experiencing on their outings Some are similar to US bugs, some are not. I like to tie the classics and many will work everywhere. However, don't get wrapped up thinking you need to have the hackle they had. Spider flies are more a style than a pattern, and as stated earlier a style of fishing. Different colored hen, a partridge and a starling is a great start and could serve you faithfully the rest of your wet fly fishing years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chase Creek 0 Report post Posted December 10, 2013 What Old Hat said. If possible, try to get Partridge skins.You can buy Partridge feathers loose in a bag, but you'll end up throwing most of them away. Most are too big for our purposes. Starling is usually sold as as a full skin($6-7) You can buy India Hen backs for very reasonable cost ($4-$7) almost anywhere, and there is quite an array of colors / markings available. Not as good as Whitings or whoevers ($20+) hen necks and capes, but an excellent way to get started. Some of the hackle available to the early British anglers is just not available, or illegal to have, today, but there are many substitutes that work well. Hairwing is correct about "our" definition of Spiders (dry fly, "Skaters") and the British Spiders (soft hackle tied sparse, a "wingless wet" is one definition). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Losthackle 0 Report post Posted December 10, 2013 Thread cross linking (also note references to online versions of some of the classics): http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=75889&hl= Oddly enough, the "spider" pattern that got me interested in softhackles in all their glorious variety isn't strictly a spider pattern ...The Black and Peacock Spider (plump peacock herl body and black hen hackle). It represents snails and beetles and still remains one of my "Go to" flies. Really interesting contributions on this thread. Thanks for the great read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Losthackle 0 Report post Posted December 10, 2013 Also, I endorse what Old Hat had to say and don't forget to collect game feathers whenever you can. There's always wild duck feathers around our municipal ponds, for example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randyflycaster 0 Report post Posted December 10, 2013 This looks like a great article: http://www.sexyloops.com/flytying/northcountrywets1.shtml Found some good basic patterns here: http://www.jackgartside.com/step_soft_hackle_flies.htm Randy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoebop 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 I just remembered this source. Good stuff on the history and development of various fly styles and tutorials on tying. Here's one on the North Country style spiders: http://www.medlarbooks.com/video/north_country.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites