business starting

[ryveradair 0]

I've been thinking about commercial tying. Im in high school and love tying. My flies aren't super good but they are decent. Should i sell online? I need help and really want to do this. Any advice?i know I need a business license and everything.

[williamhj 0]

I'd watch ebay and see what not 'super good but... decent' flies go for. Then figure out materials, time etc and see if it is worth it to you. Either that, or see what a local shop might pay for flies.

[fishingbobnelson 0]

Be aware that the IRS imposes a 10% tax on the manufacture of fishing equipment, which includes flies. If you sell on ebay they will make sure you file a excise tax form. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/4161 Good luck.

[utyer 0]

My short advise, is DON'T tie commercial. Commercial means cranking out dozens (if not grosses,) of the same pattern over and over. It will be necessary to build up a stock of material ahead of time, before you take an order. You will be buying material at retail until you have a Federal Tax ID number, and then selling flies at wholesale to shops. Then sitting down and tying hundreds of the same pattern night after night to get an order done on time. It gets old in a hurry. Been there done that, and will never do it again.

 

Most all of the flies sold in shops, are tied off shore, by tiers who are getting pennies per fly. Most larger shops make orders in the fall for delivery throughout the next year. Average retail price for most trout flies is between $1.25, and 2.50. You would need to supply a shop with flies for about half that amount.

 

Figure out how many flies you can tie per hour, then figure out what your material costs are. Your price per dozen will be in the range of 7.00 to 12.00. After paying for materials, and federal excise taxes, there isn't much profit left.

 

If you have a nearby shop that will trade you materials and hooks, for flies, that may work out, but your earnings will still be quite small. Your BEST option is to tie CUSTOM orders. Custom orders are flies that a customer (individual,) wants that can't be found elsewhere. Older patterns, family favorites, and variations of standards are not found off the shelf. Tying these kinds of patterns will allow you to negotiate the price with the individual for each order. The difficult part then would be getting your self and your flies in front of potential customers.

 

Some local shops will farm out requests like these to custom tiers, but most times they already have these tiers on staff. If you have access to a nearby shop find out if they need people to tie custom orders. If so, tie up some display flies to show them, and if they agree to send you work, find out what commission they would want. Make sure you are allowed to set the price for your work.

 

I tied this way for almost 30 years. I was able to set my own price (usually about 25% higher than a similar standard,) and most of the time, I could set the time for completion. I had more work than I wanted at times, and it was never my day job. When I found that tying these orders was cutting into time for other things (like fishing,) I quit, and handed off my customers to another tier.

[mooxe 0]

I used to sell when I tied in school.

 

Every fly was 1.19 + tax. Store would keep the 19 cents and I kept a dollar. Many dryfly and salmon patterns. I sold hundreds, would of sold more but my father was in the army and we moved. This was in late 80's early nineties, those were the days. How come the price of a fly hasn't increased with inflation? haha

 

I came out ahead of the game but not by much. Its easier to say I just broke even. It was a great feeling just tieing and knowing fisherman were using my flies. I even had repeat buyers. I would suggest finding a close by convienence and tackle shop that will sell your flies for you. Either they buy them from you up front or you do it the way I did. With my arrangement the stores only "risk" was using some counter top space.

[tidewaterfly 0]

To add to what the others have said, you will also need a Federal Employer ID number, which is needed to get the Excise Tax license. You don't have to have employee's but the IRS requires the ID number. Also, keep in mind that the Excise tax is not a sales tax, and is 10% of the sale price. So if you sell flies wholesale and/or retail, the 10% is on the price that you sell the fly (flies) at. You'll need to keep accurate records to prove what you buy for producing the flies, and how many you've sold. Plus, if you give flies away to gain additional business, promotional type stuff, you still have to pay the excise tax on the value (price) of the flies.

 

When I tied commercially, the IRS would send one of their agents to my home, which is where my tying business was located & did audits for compliance with the Excise tax requirements. They would compare hook purchases, with how many hooks I had to be sure it matched what I said I had sold as flies or otherwise. They didn't count hooks, but if I showed them an invoice for 1000 hooks & told them I had sold 100 flies, they wanted to check to see if the box of hook still looked like it had 900 hooks in it! If it didn't they had questions! Not a real trusting group!

 

 

Producing flies commercially is not as simple as tying flies & selling them!

[Chase Creek 0]

Sound advice from everyone. I have never tied commercially, but have had a couple of "cottage businesses", stemming from a well developed hobby. (Ham Radio and photography)

1. Unless you really jump into it with both feet (meaning investing money in it), it's probably not gonna work out.

2. Tying flies will not get you rich, or even support you very well. I know, I know, guys like Craven, A.K. Best, etc have done it, but they had other things going like books and dvd's, etc.; but only after they built up a reputation as a tyer. It's kinda like someone saying they want to be a professional football player - it can be done, but only a few actually make it.

3. IMHO, tying commercially is a good way to take all the enjoyment out of tying. It's a lot of work.

4. I found that as a small business, dealing with the Government is a royal pain. (triple royal pain if you have employees)

5. All of the above are certainly my own opinions, and should probably be taken as such.

 

Please don't get me wrong, I'm really not trying to discourage you from giving it a shot; just take a long, hard look at it from a financial / business point of view.

Whatever you decide, good luck.

[JSzymczyk 0]

Tie for family and friends. Find out what the hot patterns are in your area and keep folks you know stocked with 5 or 6 of them--- not a hundred copies but 5 or 6 flies of a couple different patterns. As they get fished, your name will filter around and other interested people might start asking. Do it in trade at first not money. Just a suggestion to consider, not telling you what's right for you.

 

It has amazed me my entire life how many people fly fish but do not tie flies. My experience in life was that as a kid about a million years ago I was tying flies a short while before I ever fly fished. I guess I am the strange one.

 

20 some years ago I got asked to tie a bunch of Muddler minnows- the classic Muddlers with turkey wing and squirrel tail etc. I tied VERY nice muddlers and gave some away. Anyhow, a friend of a friend asked if I could tie a bunch of #8 Muddlers- I can't remember if it was "3 dozen" or "50" but it was in that range. I said "sure" and said I'd have them done in the week. Even tying them production-line style, that quickly turned into WORK which has never been why I tie flies. Whatever I got out of the deal wasn't enough. That experience taught me that I was absolutely not a "commercial" tyer.

[Logi89 0]

Tie for family and friends. Find out what the hot patterns are in your area and keep folks you know stocked with 5 or 6 of them--- not a hundred copies but 5 or 6 flies of a couple different patterns. As they get fished, your name will filter around and other interested people might start asking. Do it in trade at first not money. Just a suggestion to consider, not telling you what's right for you.

 

It has amazed me my entire life how many people fly fish but do not tie flies. My experience in life was that as a kid about a million years ago I was tying flies a short while before I ever fly fished. I guess I am the strange one.

 

20 some years ago I got asked to tie a bunch of Muddler minnows- the classic Muddlers with turkey wing and squirrel tail etc. I tied VERY nice muddlers and gave some away. Anyhow, a friend of a friend asked if I could tie a bunch of #8 Muddlers- I can't remember if it was "3 dozen" or "50" but it was in that range. I said "sure" and said I'd have them done in the week. Even tying them production-line style, that quickly turned into WORK which has never been why I tie flies. Whatever I got out of the deal wasn't enough. That experience taught me that I was absolutely not a "commercial" tyer.

you are not the only one that tied flies before starting fly fishing

[Guest rich mc]

since your still in high school set up a meeting with your economic or business teacher and work up a business plan then decide rich mc

[Will K 0]

Tie for family and friends. Find out what the hot patterns are in your area and keep folks you know stocked with 5 or 6 of them--- not a hundred copies but 5 or 6 flies of a couple different patterns. As they get fished, your name will filter around and other interested people might start asking. Do it in trade at first not money. Just a suggestion to consider, not telling you what's right for you.

 

It has amazed me my entire life how many people fly fish but do not tie flies. My experience in life was that as a kid about a million years ago I was tying flies a short while before I ever fly fished. I guess I am the strange one.

 

20 some years ago I got asked to tie a bunch of Muddler minnows- the classic Muddlers with turkey wing and squirrel tail etc. I tied VERY nice muddlers and gave some away. Anyhow, a friend of a friend asked if I could tie a bunch of #8 Muddlers- I can't remember if it was "3 dozen" or "50" but it was in that range. I said "sure" and said I'd have them done in the week. Even tying them production-line style, that quickly turned into WORK which has never been why I tie flies. Whatever I got out of the deal wasn't enough. That experience taught me that I was absolutely not a "commercial" tyer.

you are not the only one that tied flies before starting fly fishing

Ditto that. It was a short period, when I was in like the 3rd or 4th grade...

 

OP, This may not be sound advice... What if you just sold under the radar to family and friends. Your in high school and being industrius. I'd rather you be industrius than get crushed by the tax system - you can do that later or via your normal "after school" job if you have one (or summer job). As others have said, commercial tying can suck the life out of it for you. But tying a dozzen of X Y or Z for your dad's friend or fellow employee or whatever for a few bucks cash, to me, seems fine.

 

Now, you want to whip out 80 dozen pheasant tail nymphs or 100 dozen wooley buggers, ok, best to follow the rules and get the required documentation. (and those are legit numbers for commercial guys)

[flytyer62 0]

If your going to only sell on Ebay find two or three patterns that you tie well and can tie fast. Tie them in sets of 6 or 12 and put them up for sale that way. pre tie as many set as you can before hand. that way if you have 8 dozen style a 6 dozen style b 10 doszen style c ties up ahead as you sell a set you replace it. unitl you can tie a good dozen 1/2 to 2 dozen basic fleis an hour I would not recommend trying to tie for a shop. Most of the shops I ties for pay between .70-.84 for basic fresh water patterns, if you can buy in bulk and tie fast you can make some mony but your not going to get rich by any means. i tried the custom order route but I always ended up having to tie flies I either did not like or took too long.

as for taxes you will have to fill out a IRS 720 form quaterly and pay 10% of your sale price to them. also check your state laws as you may have to pay sales tax to them even if it is an internet sale. the idea of getting an adviser to help with a business plan.

Tidewater, you must have been selling a butt load of flies for the IRS to justify sending an agent out to audit you.

 

Steve

[tidewaterfly 0]

Tidewater, you must have been selling a butt load of flies for the IRS to justify sending an agent out to audit you.

 

Steve, flies were not the only products I made & sold that required FET. I also made jigs & other lures, and resold hooks. There were years I was producing 1200 to 1500 dozen flies, primarily bass, panfish & saltwater flies.

 

I didn't fish much then!

[m_grieb 0]

I am also in high school and I tie for a shop. my suggestion would be:

 

1. don't sell decent flies. sell pro grade flies

2. don't do consignment.

3. don't sell on ebay.

4. connections. connections. people are your friend. your second cousin twice removed might know a friend of a friends sisters brother that owns or works at a fly shop.

5. don't rush it. the more you rush it, the more you become frustrated. (kinda like relationships.)

6. ill repeat. make sure your flies are good and will be accepted by a well known guide. this is how I became good at fly tying.

 

shoot me a pm if you want any more information.

 

Matt

[flytyer62 0]

Tidewater,

Ya I know what your saying there were years were I only managed to get on the water at off times, Late november and March were agout the only times with supply tying and guiding most of my time was spent for someone else. The last few years I have dialed it back a good bit to give me some time to fish more when the fishing is good.

Matt,

Most of your point are good but I would not rule out ebay there are far less fly shops than there were just 5 to 8 years ago so there may not be one close by to sell too. I guide and 90% of the flies I use for my guiding are kulls from my shop orders. flies do not have to be perfect to catch fish but they do to catch fishermen. most of my "guide" patterns are simple, quick and buggy whether for surface or subsurface. I do agree about consignment, Don't ! Connnections are the best way to get an "in" but make sure they are good one - the wrong name could bite ya. Don't just walk into a shop and try to start selling to them either. Develop a relationship with them. I can not count the number of people who come into the shop I guide for and either want to be our tier or get a pro deal and don't have a freakin clue. I will also agree Utyer, if you really like tying flies , you just may not after a short time of trying to do it on a larger scale. however you go about it good luck ans as above if you have any specific questions Pm me

 

Steve