Jump to content
Fly Tying
breambuster

Fishing With A Guide

Recommended Posts

Tipping outdoor guides is not a new tradition and dates back to well before any "entitlement generation" (whatever that is). It's just part of the culture of flyfishing now, just like drinking bourbon at the tying desk or letting a keeper swim free. The idea that a gentlemen should tip a guide or a golf caddy has manifested itself among blue collar types these days, as more folks other than the rich elite have the disposable income to be able to afford a guide. It is not a requirement though, so you don't have to participate. Any guide who expects or depends on one should just include the amount in his asking price on the front end.

 

I have hired maybe half a dozen over the years, and they all worked hard to put me on fish in unfamiliar waters. If I only have a day or two to fish in an unfamiliar location, and I'm not pinching pennies, a guide is a great way to get on the fish and enjoy a new place. I don't mind tipping for that.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the sake of the guide, dont base your tip on whether you catch fish or not. it may not be the guide's fault that the fish arent biting or that you cant set a hook worth a damn. Base it on his work ethic, professionalism and demeanor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crotalus, you took the words right out of my mouth! The number of fish you catch should have nothing to do with whether or not you had a good experience or not or if the guide worked hard to put you on fish.

A good example is when I guided (don't guide any longer) a young lady and her father. She had only flyfished once or twice but enjoyed the outdoors. I taught her to cast early in the day before we started looking for any redfish, showed and identified all sorts of fish species in the shallow water and unfamiliar plant life in the marsh as well as birds, she was having a great day. When we saw fish, they either spooked from her dad jumping up in the boat seat to see them or she was unable to make the presentation. She didn't catch a fish but they had a great day and thanked me profusely and tipped me nicely. I was working for a guide service and got paid half of the charter fee so a tip was always well appreciated.

If you don't feel the guide is giving a good experience, don't tip but if you have a good time regardless of the number of fish, then tip him/her.

 

Kirk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree about what I have read here about salmon and steelhead guides.

 

When I used to fish the Salmon River in New York I saw some of the worst examples of humankind, guides. They snagged and lined fish, forced people out of holes and don't get me started with the drift boat jerks. Their clients were worse. They felt that since they paid to fish they deserved (entitled) to catch fish where ever they wanted. The Douglaston stretch was the worst. Behavior by guides and there clients were tolerated by staff that caused a regular person to get a warning. Staff explained to me that they were told by management to never correct a guide.

 

Two years ago my friend invited me to meet him in Missoula, MT for a week of fishing. We hired a guide for one day; the only time I have hired a guide. We did a day on the Clark Fork. This guide, Nick Stipech was the guide and he was awesome. He did not know my friend was writing an article about the trip until after the day was over. We paid full price and tipped well. The trip was great. I caught ten really nice trout in the first hour. I stopped fishing and watched the scenery for a while. I had never fished out west. The rest of the week was spent with no guide on the Big Hole, Rock Creek and a lake in the middle of no where for Grayling. It was a once in a lifetime trip.

 

Having a guide made the trip special. He was not like the guides on the Salmon River and we made sure we didn't act like the people those guides were guiding. If this man is still guiding, I would recommend him.

post-3361-0-64855600-1395359510_thumb.jpg

post-3361-0-90983000-1395359575_thumb.jpg

post-3361-0-09352700-1395359669_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are jerks in every profession, but why judge all by the bad example? Hiring guides is expensive, but of enormous help if you are new to an area and have limited time. $450 to $500 for a full day is common on the best waters of the Yellowstone area. The vast majority of the guides there are terrific - they know their stuff and work hard for what they get... which is usually only half the fee. The shop they work for gets the other half. Moreover, few make a big living. In fact is it is a VERY hard way to make a living at all. The season is short. The guide pays for a guiding license, provides the boat and much of the gear, the flies, makes the lunch and pays for the car shuttle ($30-$40) out of his half.

 

And one should add.. what about all the clients who are jerks? Some have an enormous sense of entitlement... "I paid all this money and I expect fish!" It doesn't matter that they cannot cast past the oars and slap the line all over the water. It doesn't matter that a guide cannot control water and weather conditions. In my years of guiding (no longer doing it) I encountered far more jerks among the clients than among fellow guides. Some are downright abusive.

 

That said, most clients appreciate the teaching, the help with gear, the food, etc. Many pay for a nice meal after the day of fishing. And most tip 10-20%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are jerks in every profession, but why judge all by the bad example? Hiring guides is expensive, but of enormous help if you are new to an area and have limited time. $450 to $500 for a full day is common on the best waters of the Yellowstone area. The vast majority of the guides there are terrific - they know their stuff and work hard for what they get... which is usually only half the fee. The shop they work for gets the other half. Moreover, few make a big living. In fact is it is a VERY hard way to make a living at all. The season is short. The guide pays for a guiding license, provides the boat and much of the gear, the flies, makes the lunch and pays for the car shuttle ($30-$40) out of his half.

 

And one should add.. what about all the clients who are jerks? Some have an enormous sense of entitlement... "I paid all this money and I expect fish!" It doesn't matter that they cannot cast past the oars and slap the line all over the water. It doesn't matter that a guide cannot control water and weather conditions. In my years of guiding (no longer doing it) I encountered far more jerks among the clients than among fellow guides. Some are downright abusive.

 

That said, most clients appreciate the teaching, the help with gear, the food, etc. Many pay for a nice meal after the day of fishing. And most tip 10-20%.

 

 

 

Hey, I'm not saying it's all rainbows and unicorns, and I don't like people enough to ever consider doing it--- but what I do get absolutely tired of is hearing about how hard a life it is for a guide. Short season (get a real job then) and clients who are jerks (show me ANYONE who doesn't deal with jerks) equipment costs (same- anyone who works for a living has an investment in tools and equipment) and on and on.

 

That sounds like pretty good money to me- take home pay of $200 to $250 per day, minus gas and expenses PLUS tips which are largely untaxed, to go fishing every day.

 

BOO F'ing HOO HOO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For the sake of the guide, dont base your tip on whether you catch fish or not. it may not be the guide's fault that the fish arent biting or that you cant set a hook worth a damn. Base it on his work ethic, professionalism and demeanor.

Amen to that!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many have said that a guide has a good life, being able to fish everyday. I am a guide and spend more time on the water with clients than fishing myself. The time spent prior to a trip can add up; it requires trips to the stream to check conditions, insect activity, water temps and more. I GOOD guide SHOULD never fish with his client unless asked to do so. The client has paid for a service and that is what he is to get. My clients get my undivided attention. Instruction when needed (which is more common than not), flies out of my box, tippets and leaders from my vest.

 

Granted some clients may not catch fish, not my fault when I put them over fish, but due to their abilities. I get clients tell me they are skilled fly fishermen but look and act more like a novice when on the water. This can destroy the clients ability to catch fish since the trip was planned on what they wanted and their experience levels.

 

All of my clients have tipped me at the end of the day, but the amount varies.

 

As for the length of the trip - my client's time does not start from my shop or a designated meeting place, it starts when we reach the stream. So if I have to drive an hour to the stream and an hour back that time is on me and not my client. There are days when I may not get back to the shop till 10 or 11 pm and have to tie flies for a trip the next morning. There are a lot of things involved in being a great guide that goes on behind the scenes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I should have said in my previous post that I DO NOT expect a tip at the end of the day. If my clients offers it, then I will accept.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The one and only guide I have ever had was not fishing. He knew the river. He tied my flies on and had flies for us to use. I have tons of flies and can tie perfectly good knots thank you but since he offered....... He brought a cooler of 24 waters and a cooler of coke soda and great cookies, and brownies and this awesome turkey club hero and a macaroni salad. I hardly had time to fish between the food and the scenery. I did however catch a lot of fish. Nice ones too. Maybe we were lucky, but the guide was top notch.

 

He worked for his money.

 

I have always heard a guide should never fish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've shared a guide twice, once on the Madison and once on the Keni. Both times, the guide was too busy rowing, tying on flies and netting fish to even consider fishing. I did like one better than the other, but both conducted themselves very professionally. Both times, my fishing partner and I got our heads together, near the end of the float, and decided how much to tip. The tip, it would appear, was rather generous, certainly more than 20%, but within what I had budgeted. For a quality trip, it's just a part of the cost of going.

 

Personally, I dislike tipping, but, as it is a well established practice for certain services, I don't intend to be stingy about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For the sake of the guide, dont base your tip on whether you catch fish or not. it may not be the guide's fault that the fish arent biting or that you cant set a hook worth a damn. Base it on his work ethic, professionalism and demeanor.

Well i agree and disagree, i tip based on performance; when people hire me as a real estate agent they are hiring me because of my experience and expertise in the field and i hiring a guide for his expertise. My wife and i hired a Tarpon guide for our honeymoon in Miami and while he did try to put us on fish their were Tarpon jumping all around us and we didnt even hook 1 or a sailfish or bluefin tuna. I hired this guide because of his expertise and he failed, at the start of the trip i told him that i will tip him $100 if my wife even hooks a tarpon or sailfish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not a wealthy person and this trip was my Christmas gift this past year from my sweet wife. I had mentioned that if I ever got enough money together to take a 1/2 day guided trip with this guide, I was going to do so. So she paid for a 1/2 day for me for Christmas. I have talked to the guide and told him that whether we catch fish or not, I want him to show me the kinds of places in the river where the fish are, and he said he would be glad to do that. I've never trout fished with a fly rod before and I really don't know how to fish for trout. I want to learn all I can so I can take some trips on my own in the next few years. This is near the little house where my wife and I plan to retire in about 3 years from now, and I hope to fish some in the streams there after I retire. And maybe, occasionally, before I retire. The trip cost $175 and I'm thinking that I will give him around $20 or $25 tip. I'm also going to take some of his cards and hand them out, and I'll also report here about my trip and give my assessment of the guide's work. If he's good, and I expect he is, I'll be encouraging others to use him. Thanks to all of you who have responded to my original question. Your comments have all be read carefully and I appreciate your suggestions.

 

Take care

 

Breambuster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter MacKenzie-Philps used to tell a story about his yearly trip to fish the River Spey. He arrived at the hotel on the Sunday and that afternoon was introduced to his ghillie for the week. Peter said to him, "I must tell you I haven't brought you a bottle of whisky. Before I get one I want to make you an offer. If I get a fish (salmon) this week I'll give you £20 instead of the bottle." The ghillie thought for a moment and said, "What if you get five fish?" "Then I'll give you £100." Replied Peter. The ghillie looked at him for a moment and said, "There'll be nay need f' any whisky."

 

The next morning Peter was fast asleep at 05:30 when there was a banging on his door. "Good morning Mr MacKenzie-Philps. Time to go fishing." Peter explained that he had never fished so hard in his life, but by the end of the week he had 5 fish.

 

It has been traditional, in Scotland, to tip in whisky, Peter said that the result of this had been to reduce generations of ghillies to alcoholics.

 

I am seriously considering offering a guided fishing service in my area. I've worked hard failing to make a decent living working for others, I may as well fail to make a decent living doing something I love. Having read this thread I will put a piece on the web site, if and when I start this, about tips and gratuities, asking for personal recommendations as a gratuity.

 

Cheers,

C.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...