Help my oam Spiders are sinking.

[bryan_w 0]

I have noticed that the spiders I am tying from foam sheets will start to sink after a few casts. I am assuming they are absorbing water. I thought I might try coating the foam with head cement but decided to ask the experts first. What would you suggest?

[Crackaig 0]

Do you stretch the foam? If so you may be reducing the air held in the foam so that when the other materials are wetted the whole is just dense enough that the fly sinks.

 

A less dense foam like Everzote may help as well. Craft store foam is very dense foam, almost too much so for fly tying.

 

If you can a photo of the offending flies would help.

 

Cheers,

C.

[bryan_w 0]

I will post a picture when I can. I am using craft store foam and I wondered if that was my problem. I am cutting strips about 1/4" wide and tying them on top of the hook with a little help from some fast drying nail glue I "borrowed" from my teenage daughter. I also wrap the hook before I tie on the foam but I don't think the few wraps of 3/0 thread would soak up enough water to sink the fly. Thanks.

[Crackaig 0]

The sheet foam is essentially two parts. Air and foam. The foam part of it is very heavy. If you are tying a full section of 2mm foam 5mm wide and say 10 mm long onto the shank tight then you are squeezing the air out of a lot of foam. Leaving just the dense foam part of the equation. That could be the problem. Try cutting a three way taper into the foam you are tying to the hook shank. Cut both sides to a point, then from the point along the top, so top, left, and right converge to a point. This removes about 2/3rds of the foam.

 

If the foam is 50% air 50% plastic, and you squeeze the air out of half the foam then only 1/4 of the volume you have is air. That is not going to be enough to support the fly. Even the tiniest bit of water in the remaining materials could be enough to sink the fly. Though this might help a less dense foam will help more.

 

Some years ago I was shown a nymph tied with foam by Charles Jardene. He stretched the foam very tight then ribbed over it tightly. With a gold head and a touch of dubbing he had an extremely fast sinking nymph. Just the foam stretched and wound made a slightly slower sinking version. The "plastic" part of foam is really dense.

 

Cheers,

C.

[flytire 0]

here is some foam spiders i tie with 2mm craft foam

 

i use a 1/4 inch strip of foam that is tapered to a point which gets tied in at the bend of the hook and then pulled forward (i do not stretch any foam)

 

the only place the foam gets compressed is at the tie on point and the leg area

 

i have never had a problem with craft foam not floating and when the spider i'm fishing goes underwater hell i just keep fishing it and still catch a ton of fish

 

foam is not bulletproof and will eventually get saturated. different types of foam wick up water faster than others

 

 

 

 

please note: eventually the foam body will get compressed and loose its floatability depending how much man handling was used to remove the fly from the fish

[rockworm 0]

Bryan

 

There are two types of foam out there: open-cell and closed-cell foam. Since your flies don't start to sink until after a couple of casts I suggest you may be using an open-cell type foam which absorbs water readily. A fly tyed with closed-cell will absorb much less water. (The cells at the surface may be cut open and will absorb some water.) Whether the fly will float or not depends upon the weight of the fly and the volume of air trapped in the foam.

[FlaFly 0]

Concur with rockworm.... you said the spiders float for a few casts before they sink. Sounds like you are using open cell foam. (A sponge is an example of open cell foam). Take a piece of your foam and squeeze it underwater, then release it and see if it absorbs water. Take it out of the water and squeeze it. If it releases water, then you're using a sponge.

 

Since you've already made them, you might try painting one with Sally Hansen, let it dry, the put it in a glass of water and see how long it floats. That might do the trick. After a few fish bite it, though, it may start to leak again. Give it a try.

[utyer 0]

DON'T coat your foam with nail polish. I use nail polish to REDUCE the bouyancy of my foam streamers. If you want to coat the foam with something, use flexible cement like Dave's or Umpqua's. That stuff will float. Use only a little bit of it.

[mikechell 0]

I got in trouble for an earlier comment like this, but I just gotta.

After you've tied the fly, liberally apply helium to the foam and it'll float all day long. The trouble will be getting it to stay on the water, as helium treated flies tend to drift skyward.

[ditz2 0]

I sure don't understand what could be causing your problem. I tie spiders that look just like Flytire's except no tail and 2 legs on each side and I have never had a problem with the size 10 and up sinking. The small #14's can sink if I use a heavy hook and don't get enough foam on them. I use light wire hooks so I can pull on a snagged bug and straighten the hook. Then bend the hook back and keep fishing. I have used heavier wire hooks and still no problem with sinking. I have fished the same spider for hours and they have not sunk. I have 50 to 100 fish days with no sinking problem on the same fly. Now some of them will dive when jerked but they will float back to the top.

[flytire 0]

i'm in ditz's corner

 

the flies i tied above are a size 8 daiichi 1190 barbless hooks. i dont use any other hook.

 

i lightly coat the thread body with uv resin for added durability

[bryan_w 0]

Thanks everyone. I will tweak my design and see what happens.