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ckpj99

Classic designs that work for panfish/smallmouth

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I just started fly fishing for panfish and bass in the Midwest. I've been fly fishing out west for trout for probably 20 years. I have a lot of experience tying trout flies and I like the more classic designs and materials.

 

So here's my questions. What classic designs will work for panfish in lakes and slow moving streams? I've tied some foam and cork poppers, but I'd like to tie some caddis and wooly bugger designs that will actually work for what I'm fishing for.

 

Is there any reason to keep tying really small flies? It seems like even small blue gill will chomp on rather large flies, like size 6 hooks and even bigger.

 

Also, most of the places I fish have panfish and bigger bass, so it seems like I need to cover my bases.

 

Finally, it seems like most people here fish with poppers or some right below the surface with a strike indicator. Is there any reason to be tying heavy sinking flies with lead wire to get to deeper water?

 

I feel like I'm starting over again with my fishing. I feel clueless!

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You've pretty much answered most of your own questions I think. Sounds to me like you just need some confirmation or reassurances from some of the rest of us.

 

For panfish, any fly you've used for trout will also work. I like those tied with foam, as they float far longer than those tied to float with natural materials, plus they tend to be more durable. I also like deerhair, but still tend to go with the foam more often. I also often stick with terrestrial type patterns. Matching the hatch is fine when there's a significant hatch going on. It doesn't hurt to take advantage of a hatch but "matching" is seldom needed with panfishes or bass.

 

I agree that they will take bigger sizes, as they're far less selective than trout can be with regard to size. I often use size 4 & even size 2 hooks for panfish around here. Even a 6" Bluegill can get a size 2 hook in their mouths. I also like the bigger hooks because the smaller panfishes, don't get the fly in their mouths as readily & deep, gut hooked fish are seldom an issue, so releasing them is easier. Plus, those larger hooks provide a better "bite" should a bass inhale the fly. I've caught bass on smaller hooks, but have lost plenty of them too due to a bent hook, or hooks that didn't really get a good set in bony parts of their mouth.

 

For me, when targeting bass I tend to go large with flies & heavier with my gear. Generally I use 8 to 10 wt rods for LM bass, since there's plenty of snags to deal with & I like fishing big flies. Most of my bass flies are tied on 1/0 to 3/0 size hooks, so that's not something I'll target "panfish" with. However, we have some decent size White & Yellow Perch & Crappies in our rivers, so sometimes they're readily caught on those big flies. When targeting panfish, I go to lighter weight outfits, 6 wt or lighter & of course smaller flies than I use for bass, but still may catch some bass on them.

 

Heavily weighted flies are only needed for either deep water, heavy currents or when you desire a fast descent of the fly to get it near bottom quickly. How much weight IMO, depends primarily on personal preferences. Most of the places I fish are fairly shallow, but do have some currents, so I like to have some flies more heavily weighted than others. I like having the variety if I need it. Whether or not you need heavy weight flies, that's a decision only you can determine. You can certainly offset the need for such flies by using sinking lines of various sink rates, but that means having additional lines & perhaps reels or extra spools. You can also use sink tip lines or weighted leaders, so there's various options. If you like fishing with indicators, and the depth is good for it, meaning not too deep, that can also be done effectively. No single answer here.

 

I know you've said you like the classic style flies, and that's fine. I use a wide variety of flies for both bass & panfishes, even going with patterns designed for other species such as "Bonefish or Flats" styles & Steelhead styles. I'll often change colors to better fit my area, and hook styles, but there's nothing that says you have to stick with only those "marketed" as bass or panfish patterns, or even trout patterns you may have been using. As an example, one of my favorite SM bass flies for streams is a pattern called a "Squimp", which is a saltwater pattern. It works great as a crayfish. I also like "Intruders", which are Steelhead or Salmon patterns. They too work well as either crayfish or baitfish imitations. My "panfish" fly boxes contain "Crazy Charlie" & "Gotcha" versions, because the Perch, Crappies & Bluegills don't know those patterns were tied for Bonefish or other tropical species.

 

You likely already have plenty of panfish or bass flies. You just know them as "trout" flies! wink.png

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I don't tie "traditional" patterns, so I can't give you any patterns. Blue gills will eat almost any thing they can. In lakes, you will find a lot of midge pupae and larvae. Brassy nymphs (tie some with gold wire,) will work great. Damsel and dragon fly larvae are also found in these same lakes and ponds. Barr's damsel fly larvae are great patterns for blue gill. Scuds, and cress bugs are also good things to imitate. A standard leach or woolly bugger pattern will also work.

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I've caught bluegills for years on everything between 6 and 12, but never a 4. For floaters, foam spiders are a sure thing. For deeper, you might try the bully spider... everyone raves about them. Also wooly buggers are good.

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That's just a wooly bugger with a propeller. It'll work on bluegills. But then, what won't?

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I've had very good results using a hare's ear nymph, under a strike indicator. More recently, I've been experimenting with squirrel leaches. They work well too. I think the fish take them for dragon fly nymphs....

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A CDC and Elk will work for pan fish. I've caught plenty of them in both streams and lakes on them. Tie them on size 8 or 10 Shrimp/Caddis Pupae hook. Use a standard dry fly hook size 6 to 10 1XL to 3XL. Tie all black ones to imitate crickets on the 1XL and tie a yellow body/brown or tan wing on the 3XL for grasshoppers. Chernobyl Ants in the same sizes. San Juan Worms, tie them 2 to 3 inches long without weight. Popper/Dropper rigs, 12 to 18 inches below the popper with PTN or GRHEN, size 8 or 10, or the Green Weenie with or without a bead head which is deadly on pan fish. Tie them Chartreuse, fluorescent yellow, black, pink, and white.

For bass I usually use a 6 wgt. Most of the places I fish I'm not dealing with heavy cover or weeds. You can tie flies up to 6 inches long that can be cast with a 6 wgt. I also use a lot of bait fish patterns in the 2 to 4 inch range. Some are interchangeable and can used in either fresh or saltwater. Shad/peanut bunker, Silversides/minnow, or fresh water specific, sunfish/perch patterns. I use Senyo's Laser dubbing for the 2-3 inch patterns and other artificial material like Mirror Image which I blend with flash material for the 4 to 6 inch flies. Clousers, Rattle Clousers, Woolly Buggers mainly White River Demons or Chili Peppers and Calcasieu Pig Boats are some of the other flies I use subsurface. Top water, medium size poppers, pencil poppers, Sneaky Pete style sliders, Chernobyl Ants, Gurglers, and the occasional frog or mouse pattern

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this summer i used only one fly for panfish and bass and was catching fish all day. more than the people using live bait. i used a size 8 san juan worm that i tie pictured below.

post-48396-0-64831200-1409115248_thumb.jpg

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#8 and #10 woolly WORM in black with grizzly hackle with a very short red tag, on a 3xl hook. The red tag should not extend past the outside bend of the hook.

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I fished small cork poppers for years and caught both gills and bass. I have switched to mostly 8 or 10 yellow craft foam spiders. Simple tie....tie in foam at the rear of the hook. lightly pull the foam towards the eye and tie down about one or two eye lengths from the eye and tie in legs at that point on both sides. I use either red or black thread. The foam strip should be about the width of the hook gap plus or minus what floats your boat. Eazy, cheap, and fast to tie. I use a thin wire hook so if the fly gets hung a 6# tippet will straighten the hook and all I have to do is re-straighten the hook. I make slow sinker very similar except I use a yarn body. If I want a faster sinker I just add some weight. Gills and bass both like rubber legs. I also use wooly worms. You can use a size 6 craft foam hopper or a popper for a bobber with a spider or your choice below. I also like a soft hackle McGinty with no wings and 'short' red tail.

 

I like hair bugs for surface bass in size 6 or 4 on my light rods. I will go to 7wt if I fish larger. Crayfish imitators work good in the stream. They don't need to be exact copies either. Squirrel tail streamers will do most of the time. Muddlers in various colors and weights are also good to have and will mimic lots of different fish foods. 5 or 6wt rods will do unless you are fishing heavy cover then a 8 or 9wt or even heavier may be in order but I never go heavier than 7wt. I don't meat fish either. If I lose one I lose it. No big loss.

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Sunnies/bluegill will eat whatever will fit into their mouths and a lot more that won't fit. I've taken large sunnies on size 4 Edson Dark Tiger streamers I was throwing for smallmouth. The back of the hook barely fit in their mouth, they are greedy. Last Friday I was tossing large foam hoppers but kept missing , both sunnies and smallmouths were making very splashy attacks. I switched to larger foam black beetle and they would come up for a look then drop away. There were a few caddis coming back to the water which they would jump for so eventually I skated the beetle and wham the sunnies couldn't resist it. If you have tied trout flies including streamers then you most likely already have what you need , just up the size a bit. Sunfish will swallow small hooks constantly so I try to stay at size 10 and up, preferably 8 and 6 . If you have sunfish and smallmouth where you are, try tying up some carp flies , they do double duty around here , triple if you spot some feeding carp.

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It was already mentioned, and I'll second a CDC elk #10-14. I'll catch bass and bluegills on the surface with a light strip retrieve. That's my go-to fly when nothing else works.

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A few years ago I was fishing a Mickey Finn in about a #2 or even a #1 for smallies. I was fishing down and across. I caught a nice sunny and still have no idea how he even got the hook in his mouth. I fish mostly 12 thru 8's for sunfish. I also ONCE caught a gill on a 5/8oz Jitterbug night fishing for bass.

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