Allen hook equivalency

[jlb1119 0]

Hi, new member here, great forum. I have a quick question regarding Allen hooks. I have a mixture of Allen, TMC, and some Daiichi hooks, and really like Allen's barbless line. I have noticed that when comparing the hook shank length of an Allen standard dry fly (D101BL) to the equivalent size of a TMC 100, the Allen shank length seem to be equivalent to a TMC that is one size below, ie. an Allen size 12 is really comparable to the shank length of a TMC 100 size 14. However, the hook gape is slightly wider for the Allen hook. Has anyone else noticed this? If so, is this typical for Allen hooks? Thanks!

[SilverCreek 0]

Unfortunately, hooks are sized by gap and not by shank length. Not only that, there is no standard as to what a certain gap size should be. The relationship of shank length to hook gap was a nominal 1.5 times gap = hook shank length for the standard dry fly hook.

 

It used to be that Mustad tried to follow the British Reddich scale but now it seems to be a free for all. There are many more manufacturers and Partridge of Redditch and Mustad are no longer close to being as dominant as they once we so now it seems there is no standard.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=sV9v3oOsmhwC&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=redditch+hook+standard&source=bl&ots=0YH2SPRAQ5&sig=bfNP10O31oY7mLOUHXG8UvXI4Wg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=StEQVM3YLcr3yQTL_4JA&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=redditch%20hook%20standard&f=false

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=Moe9UglHq0MC&pg=PA87&dq=redditch+hook+standard&hl=en&sa=X&ei=stIQVISqMdWzyATnqoKwCQ&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=redditch%20hook%20standard&f=false

[tidewaterfly 0]

Welcome the forums! To add to what Silver Creek said, as you get into the tying more with different styles of hooks you'll find that some are real wacky when comparing between brands. Basic dry fly hooks are likely the closest in dimension between brands. Most of us will use whatever brand & hook model that best serves our purpose, regardless of dimensions. That means it may be best for you to either buy the different brands or stick to a single brand & adjust accordingly to the hook. There's nothing that says you have to use specific hooks for tying anything. You certainly can tie a smaller fly on a slightly larger dimension hook, (WITHIN REASON) but not usually the other way around.

[JoeBillingsley 0]

I'll add that I think TMC 100 hooks have a slightly longer shank than many other companies' "standard" dry fly hook. Although I haven't compared them, I would bet that the Allen hooks shank lengths might compare closer in shank length to the Mustad 94840. Just a guess, though.

 

Joe

[FlaFly 0]

Henry... thanks for those links. Always nice to learn something new. For me, I don't tie trout flies so don't feel compelled by any strict guidelines. I can tie anything from size 6 to 12 and still catch bluegills. I like the choice of a variety of shank lengths... I can select the hook that seems to best fit the fly I have in mind. If the body's longer, I can use a longer shank. If it's fatter, I might select a slightly larger gap.

[SilverCreek 0]

The photo below shows 3 nominal size 18 hook shank lengths. Each ruler mark is 1/16 of an inch.

The center hook is a size 18 Mustad 94842, the up eye version of the standard 94840.

To the left is the TMC 921 (2XS) size 16 that should have the shank length of a size 18 but the gap of a size 16. To the right is the size 18 TMC 2487 scud hook.

Theoretically, the shank length is the length of the shank from the hook eye to where the shank starts to curve to form the hook bend. How do you determine the length of the shank of a scud hook that has a constant curve?

The Mustad and Tiemco scud hook both have size 16 hook gaps but they are not even close to each other in gap width. Theoretically, hook gaps should be a standard width. Since they are not, there is no standard.

[McGnat 0]

I'll add that I think TMC 100 hooks have a slightly longer shank than many other companies' "standard" dry fly hook. Although I haven't compared them, I would bet that the Allen hooks shank lengths might compare closer in shank length to the Mustad 94840. Just a guess, though.

 

Joe

I have compared the Tiemco 100 to the Mustard and the Tiemco does have a slightly longer shank for a hook of the same listed size.

[flytire 0]

Deleted

[muskyhunter81 0]

I found this at the Allen Fly Fishing website:

 

https://store-cb329.mybigcommerce.com/product_images/uploaded_images/allen-fly-fishing-hook-equivalency-chart.jpg

[FlaFly 0]

Musky

I assume that table is useful to those tyers who have, or are familiar with those hooks that are referenced. I am not. What I would like to see, and as yet never have in any hook catalog, is the actual dimensions (overall length, shank length, gap) of the hooks. They show nice pictures in the catalogs but with such variation in what gap constitutes a 10 or a 12, the picture is not much use to me.

[jlb1119 0]

Great information, thanks!