What does a true Cree hackle look like?

[barrytheguide 0]

I purchased a Metz Cree cock cape, it's ok but not of the best quality. But it looks like a Variant to me, So I am wondering what a true Cree is? Does anyone have a photo or two, or a link showing a close up of a true Cree feather?

[Crackaig 0]

Hi Barry, I must admit that I am as confused, if not more, than you. Many years ago there was an article (Fly Fishing and Fly Tying) that showed photo of Dr Baigent's (sp?) collection of hackles of different colours. The one he labelled as "cree" was a red game barred black. That is not now what is considered a cree. It seems that today the term refers to barred Black Red Game (Brown in US) and White. It seems there is no real standard.

 

the problem is that colour is a very subjective thing. Where the line is drawn between one colour or another varies from person to person. John Gierach explained in one of his books that he could spend ages going through a shop's stock of capes to select one. He said "I may not have gotten the best, but I got the one I wanted." I think that sums it up. Does the hackle satisfy your expectations? It also makes a strong argument for going to the shop to see what you are getting. (Something I'm not in a position to do, so get my hackle from only one or two trusted suppliers).

 

Cheers,

C.

[flytire 0]

read this

 

http://www.conranch.com/cree_article.html

 

http://flyanglersonline.com/flytying/cree.php

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=cree+hackle+feather&biw=1600&bih=775&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=TwwUVPKCLuPD8QHS6IAo&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=vvEqwnvoTg-g1M%253A%3Bn3vY2eXn1ox1yM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.theflyfishingwoman.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2013%252F01%252FPicture-20.png%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.theflyfishingwoman.com%252F2013%252F01%252F28%252Fcree-hackle-the-obsession-revealed%252F%3B1321%3B814

 

yes it is a variant

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

I've collected a few Metz Cree saddle patches and one or two necks over the years... mostly lesser quality since the top quality feathers are much more suited for freshwater tying. I finally began using red chinchilla (also called variant) feathers for my use which I like as a substitute. Here's one of my signature tarpon patterns that uses the substitute. It's called the Sand Devil and is still being produced for shops worldwide by Umpqua. It's done up on an Owner Aki hook...

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

Tried to edit previous post without success... here's a better pic of the feathers being used...

[AZWoolybugger 0]

Look towards the bottom of this pdf from Whiting Farms. http://www.whitingfarms.com/newsletters/WFI%20042013%20Web.pdf

[SilverCreek 0]

Here's a current Whiting Bronze Cree Saddle and a Silver Cree Neck.

[tidewaterfly 0]

Great links & examples! ^^^^

 

Cree is one of those "colors" that's difficult to define exactly. As said it's a variant that can range from grizzly with splashes of red, to red grizzly with splashes of black (dark, black or brown). Most natural colors have a range of what we define as that color. (Dun for example!)

 

All in what you like as a tier & what patterns you're tying.

 

Like Capt Bob, I've obtained several cheap Indian necks & saddles that are cree , red chinchilla or variant in color. I like it for cheeks on small Bonefish or Redfish style flies, and the larger hackles I use for patterns like Capt Bob's. Although I'm using them primarily for bass. I've used red chinchilla & grizzly hackle paired up to get similar appearance too.

 

I tie a "Cockroach" Deceiver pattern using the above & coyote tail in the natural colors that works well for bass, would probably be killer on Redfish or Seatrout & on an appropriate style hook for Tarpon.

 

The fish don't often care either way which type hackle is used, but I like the combination of black & natural red coloration.

 

For dry flies you can mix grizzly, chinchilla or ginger variants with shades of red/brown to get a "cree" appearance if you don't have true cree.

[barrytheguide 0]

I've just found a Whiting "Cree" cape for sale and I can't wait to see it. The reason I want a "genuine" one is I like to tie tradition flies and Cree is the only way to tie a Adams! I know the fish won't know the difference.

I'll post a picture or two when it arrives next week

[vicrider 0]

barry, you echo my sentiments. I also just ordered a full cree cape but definitely not on sale. Big bucks for one of those and hope it is as good as the seller says. It's a Whiting and cost more than 5 different colored half capes combined. I also want it to tie a run of the Adams family flies. I had some cree and ran out but have tied the Adams classic, Parachute, and Delaware in 12-20 and hope to finish the family when new cree comes in.

[flytire 0]

Cree is a different way to tie an Adams not the ONLY or even the TRADITIONAL way

[barrytheguide 0]

barry, you echo my sentiments. I also just ordered a full cree cape but definitely not on sale. Big bucks for one of those and hope it is as good as the seller says. It's a Whiting and cost more than 5 different colored half capes combined. I also want it to tie a run of the Adams family flies. I had some cree and ran out but have tied the Adams classic, Parachute, and Delaware in 12-20 and hope to finish the family when new cree comes in.

Il show you mine if you show me yours! I expect this cape to last me a very long time as I don't dry fly a lot, but then again I feel a trip to the McCloud in my future.....

[vicrider 0]

Cree is a different way to tie an Adams not the ONLY or even the TRADITIONAL way

flytire, I understand this but like another thread I am not tying for contest or museum but to have a nice looking set of flies in my fly box. I have a heck of a time getting nice double hackle on both behind and in front of the wings. The Cree does the job for me so much easier using a single long hackle and putting maybe 4 wraps behind and three or four in front of wings and doesn't leave me cussing and cutting the fly near as often. To my eye, using my reading glasses and not a magnifier I cannot find enough visual difference in a brown and grizzly or one GOOD cree hackle. A judge might laugh my flies off the vise but they look good to me and have even fooled a fish or two.

 

Barry, when I get the order in I'll try to get a decent picture but I have a hard time getting them from photobucket to here and just can't make the thumb option work.

[JSzymczyk 0]

I like to tie tradition flies and Cree is the only way to tie a Adams!

 

 

really? you should do some reading. If you are worried about tying a "Traditional" Adams then cree hackle isn't even on the list.

 

Yes, if it is the right hackle, it will make things easier (?) with black, brown, and white all on the same feather.

 

I have a Whiting "Dark Barred Ginger" cape which has a LOT of what would be called cree feathers by most tiers... barring of white, black, and brown.

[barrytheguide 0]

 

I like to tie tradition flies and Cree is the only way to tie a Adams!

 

 

really? you should do some reading. If you are worried about tying a "Traditional" Adams then cree hackle isn't even on the list.

 

Yes, if it is the right hackle, it will make things easier (?) with black, brown, and white all on the same feather.

 

I have a Whiting "Dark Barred Ginger" cape which has a LOT of what would be called cree feathers by most tiers... barring of white, black, and brown.

Without going to the google search, all the references I have found in the past calls for a single Cree hackle and not a mixture. I agree that the fish don' know the difference, I do.

So you tie your Adams etc, the way you do and I'll tie in the way I do, neither is right and neither is wrong.

The Hackle I have ordered is Whiting Cree, so if they think its Cree and not a Variant, I'll believe them.