I need some advice...

[Cannonx4 0]

I have bought a few neck hackles but it seems like saddle hackles would be the better choice. Could use some opinions here, if you don't mind.

[fshrmanms 0]

depends on what you are tying

[rockworm 0]

A neck will give you a greater range of sizes. (ie from 6 down to 24 or smaller.) A saddle will have a more narrow range (ie between 10 and 14.) The real advantage of a saddle is that each feather can tye several flies.

[add147 0]

A neck will give you a greater range of sizes. (ie from 6 down to 24 or smaller.) A saddle will have a more narrow range (ie between 10 and 14.) The real advantage of a saddle is that each feather can tye several flies.

Stupid question here....So what you are saying is a saddle feather is longer therefore more flies can be tied with the same feather?

[tidewaterfly 0]

 

 

Stupid question here....So what you are saying is a saddle feather is longer therefore more flies can be tied with the same feather?

 

Before you get the wrong idea, this applies only to hackles that are used for dry flies. Not all neck or saddles are suitable for dry flies. Rockworm's answer also only applies to full necks or saddles, on the skin, and not to strung or loose feathers. The selecting of hackle does depend on the type of fly & the type of hackle. A dry fly saddle for example, will not be the same as a saddle hackle used for bass or saltwater tying. The "qualities" or "features" of each is different.

 

With reference to dry fly quality neck or saddles, yes a longer saddle hackle of the same sizing as a neck hackle will tie more flies if both are of similar qualities. Generally, saddle hackles are slightly different than neck hackles as far as dry fly hackle is concerned as the fibers on saddles are often softer & sometimes have some curvature to them. However, if you choose the correct hackle of either, both will tie the same fly pattern quite nicely.

 

If you're comparing other neck or saddle hackle, such as is used for bass or saltwater tying, saddles can be longer & are usually narrower than neck hackle.

 

The only stupid question is the one not asked. FYI, when asking such questions, tell us what you're tying & what you're trying to use. Helps with providing accurate answers that hopefully limit confusion.

 

Where's flytire when we need him? He's posted some excellent info in the past that shows how various hackles compare!

[add147 0]

 

 

 

Stupid question here....So what you are saying is a saddle feather is longer therefore more flies can be tied with the same feather?

 

Before you get the wrong idea, this applies only to hackles that are used for dry flies. Not all neck or saddles are suitable for dry flies. Rockworm's answer also only applies to full necks or saddles, on the skin, and not to strung or loose feathers. The selecting of hackle does depend on the type of fly & the type of hackle. A dry fly saddle for example, will not be the same as a saddle hackle used for bass or saltwater tying. The "qualities" or "features" of each is different.

 

With reference to dry fly quality neck or saddles, yes a longer saddle hackle of the same sizing as a neck hackle will tie more flies if both are of similar qualities. Generally, saddle hackles are slightly different than neck hackles as far as dry fly hackle is concerned as the fibers on saddles are often softer & sometimes have some curvature to them. However, if you choose the correct hackle of either, both will tie the same fly pattern quite nicely.

 

If you're comparing other neck or saddle hackle, such as is used for bass or saltwater tying, saddles can be longer & are usually narrower than neck hackle.

 

The only stupid question is the one not asked. FYI, when asking such questions, tell us what you're tying & what you're trying to use. Helps with providing accurate answers that hopefully limit confusion.

 

Where's flytire when we need him? He's posted some excellent info in the past that shows how various hackles compare!

 

Yes flytire is a wealth of knowledge...Just a short question...I know now what you are saying...Thanks for the heads up! I mostly tie stuff for bass and panfish...Not may places in East Texas that has trout and salmon.

[shoebop 0]

cape

saddles

 

Not sure if this is what you are looking for but here are some photos. As you can see, the saddle offers very long feathers of approximately the same size. The cape feathers are somewhat shorter and the size range is greater (even on the same feather) as they have a taper to them that the saddle hackle doesn't.

[flytire 0]

So what you are saying is a saddle feather is longer therefore more flies can be tied with the same feather?

 

YES

 

some saddle hackle can be 12-15 inches long without much taper and will tie more than on fly as opposed to using using a neck/cape hackle

 

 

 

 

http://www.eflytyer.com/materials/feathers.html

[Cannonx4 0]

thanks for the help

[tidewaterfly 0]

Shoebop's, right up there too with the best of them when it comes to clarifying what's posted here! Thanks for the assist guys!

 

Ronnie, most of the tying I do now is for bass & panfish, plus some saltwater species. The nearest trout stream to me is an hour away & I don't get to chase them much.

 

I probably tie more with strung neck or saddle hackle than anything, as the hook size range I tie in for bass & Striped Bass fits well with this type of hackle. I don't often tie smaller than a size 8 either, even for panfish so for those smaller sizes I might use hen hackle or India necks & saddles. All of these are less costly than dry fly hackle sold today. Again, it all depends on the fly pattern being tied & what you want or need the hackle you select to do. All of thee I've mentioned are generally softer more webby feathers.

 

Some examples:

Panfish flies. The hackle used on these could be hen, India hackle, or simply any smaller rooster neck or saddle of the correct size. The hackle does not provide any flotation, as these are meant to sink, but will provide some movement. Although in the Woolly Worm looking fly, because the hackle is wrapped, a saddle is often the better choice since it's longer. However, some neck hackles might be suitable for the same purpose.

 

 

 

On this pattern the foam will float the fly. The hackle used could be dry fly quality, but doesn't have to be. However, a soft, webby type hackle would not be the best to use since it will absorb water faster & might even sink the fly.

 

Bendbacks: The hackles I used on these are both saddle & neck hackles. The grizzly is saddle hackle, while the tan looking hackle is natural red Chinchilla neck hackle. They add some color or contrast to these patterns & to the profile, and when wet will add some movement to the fly.

 

Lefty's Deceiver: I used strung neck hackle in this one, but could have used strung saddle hackle. Generally the neck hackle is wider & may be stiffer. Depending on the profile you desire, either could be used.

 

Poppers: On the first one, the Gerbubble Bug, I used strung neck hackle for all. Typically, I'll use strung saddle for wrapping the collars, but not always. The collar in the second picture is strung saddle. The tails on both are neck hackles. Wide, hen hackle could also be used for the tails, as could hackles from Pheasants or some other game birds. I'll sometimes use spade hackles too for tails, which are a shorter type of saddle hackle. No rules here, simply use what fits the purpose.

 

 

Seaducer: Again, I'll tie these with either neck or saddle hackle in both the tails & the body. Saddles usually wrap easier than the neck hackle, but nothing says the neck hackle can't be used to wrap the body.

Tails on these are neck hackles. The wrapped body is likely neck hackle too.

 

Tails on this one is saddle hackle, and so is the body wrap. There's some Estaz in the body too. The red collar may be either neck or saddle.

 

If you need a range of sizes, you can get either full necks or saddles (on the skin) that are not the dry fly type. They're often sold as saltwater or bass, or streamer grade. There is always a limited number of each size hackle on the full skins. I have some of both in my tying supplies, purchased when I found them at a good price, but still do more tying with the strung hackle since the hackles will be all closer to the size range I need.

 

Hope this helps!

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Tide, that hopper is killer looking! as is the Gurbubble bug. On the Gurbubble Bug, what glue do you use for glueing the feather in the side of the head slot? Do you use the same feathers for the skirt and just tie off and pull the butt sections up through the cuts? or are they seperate feathers?

 

Kirk

[tidewaterfly 0]

Thanks Kirk! I used hot glue in the slots, and any over run is easy to remove once it cools. The side hackle is a different feather than the tails. It's a folded neck hackle section, and was glued in place before finishing the tail & collar. I believe I inserted a full hackle on each side, and cut off the ends afterwards. The body is balsa. Been awhile since I made that one!

 

Unfortunately, I can't take credit for that hopper. I took the pic, but believe I received it in a swap. But, I agree with you it's a killer looking pattern and not a difficult one to tie! That's why I haven't used it either, wanted to copy it!

[vicrider 0]

TWF, great post showing different feather use. I like it, and all the flies in the shots.

 

One example of how a feather can tie more than one fly are Whiting 100 packs. I know people who were pissed they didn't get a hundred feathers but actually the amount of feathers in there, usually around 10-12 will easily tie 100 flies unless everyone is a full palmered fly.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Gotcha Tide. I tie the Gurbubble with seperate hackles as well; I tried CA gel but it dried to slow. Then I tried Fletch Tite and it works pretty well and dries quicker than CA so you don't have to hold it as long. I like the hot glue idea, may have to try that.

 

Incedentally, my personal preferance when using feathers for skirting/hackling poppers, divers and sliders is to use dry fly saddle for #6 and below and the Buggar patches from Whiting on larger bugs.

 

Thanks,

Kirk