hackle "tied full"

[Joseland 0]

i just got kitted up with vice and tools, and am attempting to tie some dries. i know this is a banal question but when a pattern says 'hackle, tied full', does this just mean it is not stripped or trimmed on one side, i.e. just tied as is?

lame question, i know, but i'd like to get this right!

thank you for your patience

 

[rockworm 0]

"Tied full" does sound rather vague, doesn't it? I think this means you need to wrap a lot of turns of hackle. For a relatively large fly (#10 and larger) I would wrap 4-6 turns behind the wing and 4-6 turns in front of the wing. But things like this are relative. A heavily-hackled dry fly is usually intended to be fished in rough water, where the extra buoyancy is needed.

[mikechell 0]

Where did you see the pattern that stated this?

[Joseland 0]

http://www.kossiedun.com.au/KosciuszkoDun.htm

the patterns down the bottom refer to this 'tied full' statement

 

so if it means lots of wraps, would it be easier for me as a learner to tie in two hackle tips together?

[rockworm 0]

That depends upon what feathers you have on hand. A single saddle feather would almost certainly do. A single neck feather might be sufficient if it were from a genetic bird.

[mikechell 0]

In the plate shown below, from Howard Joseland's book Angling in Australia and Elsewhere, 1921, fly No. 7 is the Great Red Spinner, which is an old English pattern and dates back beyond 1830 and No. 9 is The Tuross, designed by Howard Joseland.

 

In the excerpt from the page you linked, Joseland, (relationship?) the flies referenced have hackle that is only on top of the fly. It has been trimmed from the bottom, or only tied on top instead of palmered.

From that, it's possible that, "Tied full" means it is palmered hackle. All the pictured patterns call for "tied full" and have palmered hackle.

[Joseland 0]

...see below

[Joseland 0]

no relationship, just like his book.

still a bit confused, but thanks for the interpretation

[Crackaig 0]

As usual it can mean one of several things.

• Some flies have a bushier hackle than others. Made by making more wraps of hackle. Depending on the hackles you have you can just use more turns of the one hackle, or you can use two. The second of these two dry flies could be described as "fuller" than the first.

• Some wet flies have a hackle only under the shank, called a beard hackle, like this salmon fly.

Others have the hackle all around the hook shank.

The second of these can be called a "full hackle". This could also be used when trying to describe a dry fly hackle that hasn't been trimmed under the hook shank, compared to one that has.

• From what Mike says (I can't load the page) the author is using the term to differentiate between a collar hackle...

 

And a palmered hackle...

 

Confused? You should be. This is a problem for all new fly tiers, you are not alone. The meaning of the term is dependent on its context. I hope this has shed a little light.

Cheers,

C.

[Joseland 0]

well, this clears things up somewhat.

thank you for going to the trouble of posting the pics, too - they really help

what a fantastic resource you all are!

[mikechell 0]

For the record, I just sent an E-mail to the site, asking what their interpretation for "tied Full" is.

Should have THE answer by the end of the day.

[Joseland 0]

thanks, mikechell. i'm just beginning to see what a vast technical field this tying caper is. seeing patterns by realistic tyers like fred hannie et al makes me marvel. i was aiming at getting in at the shallow end with simple patterns with the modest aim of getting the proportions right.

cheers

j

[mikechell 0]

Good place to start, J. Don't let the technical aspect bother you. This is a great place to overcome that obstacle. You asked quite a stumper ... you should be proud !!! LOL

[flytire 0]

 

 

here is one photo from the link that describes the hackle "tied full"

 

it just looks like the thorax area of the fly is "tied full" with the hackle in touching turns as opposed to a couple of hackle wraps behind and in front of a wing

[tidewaterfly 0]

Joseland, welcome to the site & to tying. Historically, pattern recipes are full of terms that may have different interpretations. Unfortunately, you will probably find other descriptive terms that are vague as well. In the case of following a pattern recipe where there is an accompanying picture, it's best to simply copy what you see. Everyone of us has a different view of the exactness of these terms & what they mean. Eventually it will only be important as to what it means to you.

 

Check out flytire's signature lines! These statements are so very true!