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A request for data -- for accounts of ....

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Has anyone witnessed a trout refusing a natural bug? A natural mayfly or caddis? Particularly so if it was a compound refusal where the fish swam away and then came back to look a second third or fourth time. And still refused to bite.

 

If so send me a private message or post it here. This is a subject I want to hear more about. Something I'm curious about. Thanks!

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I can't speak of trout ... but I've watched big bluegill look at a real bug in the water for several seconds, then swim away. Smaller 'gills will then start to hit at the legs and "bits". Sometimes, this action will bring the big one back, but it will usually turn it down again.

Smaller sunfish are easy to catch ... large ones get large by being more wary of their meals.

 

Big bass will watch a bug on the surface for long periods of time, too. I think with both large predators, it all depends on full stomachs. If they're eating well, they can "afford" to refuse a seemingly easy meal.

 

I truly believe catch-and-release fishing is conditioning the fish to avoid "easy" meals, too. They're learning one of our mottoes ... if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

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I've seen brook trout come out from under a bank after something, then turn and bolt back under the bank. I feel they are more likely to do this when there is direct sun on the water, and if something has disturbed the pool recently (knocking rocks into the water, slapping the fly line on the water, stomping around). They could be focused on another food source at the time (nymphs rather than duns, or a masked hatch). As for any other fish I imagine they would have similar "motives."

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I truly believe catch-and-release fishing is conditioning the fish to avoid "easy" meals, too. They're learning one of our mottoes ... if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

Mike, I agree with you on this. I don't have any hard data at hand to support such a conclusion, but based on what we know about how fish operate, I don't see how it could be otherwise.

 

I have seen trout, especially on the heavily-fished catch-and-release waters of Michigan's Au Sable River, appear to refuse naturals, although it's impossible to say if they turned away from a natural because the bug didn't "look right" or if something else happened just at that moment (sunlight, shadow, overhead movement, etc.) that spooked them.

 

If objective data were to emerge that proved that C&R was conditioning fish to feed so selectively as to threaten the survival of wlid fish, that would be a major problem. I suppose it could be happening on very heavily fished C&R waters, but there are still plenty of streams full of trout that are as opportunistic as nature intended them to be. They tend to be smaller fish and harder to get to, which is probably a big part of why they're still there.

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Bryon,

I am not sure the selective feeding of C&R fish would threaten the population. It's an animal, it can't "decide" to be anorexic or bulimic like less intelligent forms of life, like some people. They'll eat when the hungry drive overcomes the caution ... maybe at night.

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Consider that if you can see a fish refuse a natural, it may well have turned away because it saw your shadow, your rod, your shinny wrist-watch, etc.

 

As far as C&R conditioning fish, considering their brains structures, seems quite unlikely. Always interesting how fishers tend to anthropomorphize their quarry.

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I did see two fish, on two different occasions, both on heavily pounded pay for access Spring Creeks refuse a natural. In one case there was no doubt. It had nothing to do with me observing. The fish swam quickly up under a drifting Pale Morning Dun, darted away and then came back three or four times in all. And then zoomed away without taking the drifting natural. All of this happened quickly. Two high speed seconds at most. I was a good distance away but the lighting was just right and I saw the whole thing. It definitely caught my attention.

 

An example of one or two doesn't prove much of anything. That's why I asked for everyone else's observations too.

 

One potential implication is the idea frequently caught fish are getting both conditioned and confused. The other semi-related implication, which is the one that interested me, was about matching the hatch. If they're starting to refuse naturals it might mean they don't ever get a good look. That a drifting imitation looks more like a real bug to the fish than we've been assuming. And that even better dry fly design might not change much--because they're already having trouble telling the difference between our offerings and the real thing.

 

Perhaps a fuzzy characteristically leggy dimple in the mirror-like surface tension is all they get to see anyway.

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Consider that if you can see a fish refuse a natural, it may well have turned away because it saw your shadow, your rod, your shinny wrist-watch, etc.

 

As far as C&R conditioning fish, considering their brains structures, seems quite unlikely. Always interesting how fishers tend to anthropomorphize their quarry.

Of all the people I know ... I am the LEAST likely to anthropomorphize.

Conditioning is the most basic form of survival. If something causes "pain" or a threat to survival, avoid it. If it does not, eat it again.

 

"Showing the fish something they haven't seen before" ... is a catch phrase among bass anglers. The truth to that is ... bass conditioned to avoid the popular lures, will investigate something new.

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Anthropomorphizing animal behavior used to be a scientific no-no second only to plagiarism.

 

But all that's changed now. Because I hath declared it so.

 

 

So. Don't be afraid to say trout sometimes get confused. Especially when they do.

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I was in the Black Hills one October, with a perfect BWO hatch coming off. Not by any means a blanket hatch where one needs to time their float with just the right timing, but enough to have a real nice 23" bow rising fairly regularly. I had a perfect match for the duns, a size 20 quill body parachute with medium dun hackle parachute and slightly darker dun Antron wing post. I uncharacteristically got three very well-timed delicate drifts over the fish. Each was met with abject refusal.

 

Frustrated, From my very well hidden position, I watched the fish continue to take naturals for 20 minutes. Then I noticed something...it was refusing upright naturals of upright wing, in favor of those "lopsided" on the water. I pulled a somewhat mangled fly of the exact same quill body out of my box, tied it on, and on the first cast it actually went out of its way to take - that's how I know it was 23"...

 

Nobody will ever convince me that the fish wasn't refusing natural upright bugs and keying on "cripples". Was the fish thinking about it? Hell no. But it sure was feeding selectively, conditioned or not, on flies that floated by differently than the majority of the uprights.

 

Not 2 hours later, about 20 yards downstream around a corner, another large rainbow was feeding. By this time, I'd returned to the first beautifully upright fly that had been refused by the first fish. On my second cast, it ate like it hadn't ever seen an artificial. 26"...a day I'll never forget - my first, second, and only 20/20's on a dry. And most of all, a learning experience - every fish is different, observation pays, and yes, some naturals will be refused in favor of others. Just my .02 cents...

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Then I noticed something...it was refusing upright naturals of upright wing, in favor of those "lopsided" on the water. I pulled a somewhat mangled fly of the exact same quill body out of my box, tied it on, and on the first cast it actually went out of its way to take - that's how I know it was 23"...

 

This, I would call natural behavior. From the first food item a fry or larval fish takes in, it learns to key in on easier prey. Healthy prey is harder to catch. This conditioning is strengthened throughout life, easy prey makes for easy meals. Anything "odd" looking (usually injured) is easy prey.

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Not sure I buy into the notion that fish can be so conditioned into fearing food that it puts the species at risk. Animals(including us) will do do almost anything when it comes to survival. The fact that a fish is refusing something should prove just how much they are eating and don't need to take what they perceive as an unnecessary risk on something that doesn't seem right to them.

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Selectively feeding on a stage ie. cripple or during a complex hatch, when multiple species of bug are hatching - both seem capable of creating the scenario.

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I've watched fish refuse naturals on several occasions. Fish often shy away from 'hoppers and salmonflies on pressured waters. And I've seen it during mayfly hatches. But then again, I've watched fish from heavily pressured waters eat little drifting sticks and things too.

 

The whole "lopsided" dun selectivity is the real deal. I use a lot of a similar type pattern on windy days and to selective trout eating BWOs or PMDs. Works great, and the fly doubles as a spinner pattern too.

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I agree with jhr163 and Prosopium w. I have watched hoppers fall/fly into the water and be refused by multiple fish along the way down stream only to be picked up by a smaller fish after all the other refusals,kinda like Mike has stated with the bluegills.

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