what size dumbell eyes for what size hook, and salt leader question

[jerzfly732 0]

Hi all! Im at the fly fishing show in somerset need to ln8w what size dumbell eyesshould be used for clousers?

 

My next question is i just picked up a 9wt tfo im fairly new to flyfishing in general but completely green to salt water fly what do I use for leader? The largestleader I could find atthe show was 7x. Can I just use a good mono or TN is there a tapered 9wt? I was hoping to get everything I needed th8s weekejd for salt before I move to OBX thanks for any help in advanve

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

No real relation between size of lead eyes and the size of the hooks you're using except how much you want those lead eyes to move your fly down on the sinking side of things (both before you begin your retrieve and during each pause in a retrieve. Get a look at the two pics I've attached - they're essentially the same fly on a 2/0 hook -but have very different sink rates....

 

As far as leaders go you'll get a lot of different opinions, depending on where they're fishing and what they were taught coming up.... Down here in the Everglades the leader system I use the most is called a "poor boy". It consists of a heavy butt section permanently attached to the fly line with a nail knot (on an intermediate we use two nail knots in a row...). The terminal end has a surgeon's loop where we attach a four to five foot length of 20lb fluorocarbon leader without any taper at all.... Butt sections are 4ft of 40lb (8-9wt), 5ft of 50lb for a 10wt, and 6ft of 60lb for an 11 or 12wt line....

[saltydancindave 0]

A 7X/2lb leader for size #20-28 flies is almost as small as leaders go ( there's 8X ) for freshwater trout fishing. 0X/10 lb for flies sized #1/0-2 is larger & bass size or even good for saltwater, unless the fish are larger where you'll have better catch ratios with larger X1/12lb - X4/18 lb leader butts before adding class tippet & shock tippet.

[Saltybum 0]

Who started all that x-stuff anyway? Too confusing. Lets get with what IGFA uses "pounds" classification.

[agn54 0]

Capt Bob was spot on for the eyes, it just depends on how fat you want the fly to sink. If the current is strong or you are in deeper water, heavier eyes like medium dumbbell work well. I use small or medium lead on a lot of clousers and medium or large bead chain and others. For my leaders, I have a foot section of 40 lb attached with a nail knot and a perfection loop on the end so I can change leaders quick without having to tie them to the fly line. My leaders are 4 1/2 feet of 40 lb, 2 1/2 feet of 30 and 2 1/2 feet of 20 with a perfection loop on the end. I then attach my tippets with a loop to loop connection so I can change tippets without shrinking the leader each time. For tippet I usually use 20 lb fluorocarbon but will go up to 30 if I am chasing snook or if the blues, macks, and other toothy critters are around.

[tidewaterfly 0]

In addition to what Capt Bob said about lead eyes, barbells are made in brass and tungsten too. I don't use the tungsten much due to cost, but in real deep water they can be good since they're a lot denser than lead. I like the brass, especially in places with a lot of rock, concrete or rip rap. I've broken the lead eyes on such hard surfaces, and the brass seems to resist breaking better. However, the brass is not as dense, so a larger size needs to be used compared to lead to get the same sink rates.

 

I make my leaders out of Yozuri Hybrid, same as I use on my baitcasters, so I don't buy tippet materials. IMO, there's little need to do so for saltwater fishing as there are suitable bulk lines.

 

Orvis, Rio, SA and other line makers/suppliers have tapered leaders available for saltwater use if you're not inclined to tie your own. There are both mono & fluoro types available.

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

Here's a quick addition to what I said about the leader system I use.... Along with the often used "poor boy" system in 20lb (as well as 15lb, and 12lb when lighter leaders are necessary) I'm also using carefully tied leaders with shock or bite tippets for bigger fish (particularly tarpon, snook, and other fish that are really hard on leaders...) that are tied up in advance and ready to loop onto the existing butt sections on any setup.... These are tied two leaders at a time with a doubled length shock tippet joining a class tippet at each end... All are looped together in a continuous chain of leaders onto a leader wheel for convenience. In use you pull off the top leader, clip the shock tippet in two and you're ready to go. Here's a few pics from an article I wrote about this method a few years back...

[Swamp Fly 0]

Capt. Bob, those look great. I do the same thing but just with plain Jane Ande mono tippets, they have a bimini then furled surgeons loop similar to what you have there. I put a sacrificial perfection loop on the other which I just cut off, it trains the double loop to lay right before I need to use it. I take all of the spools and make a very loose loop through them with a zip tie and then attach the whole thing to my tackle bag with a $.99 mini carabiner. Zip ties are cheap to replace if I need to change out a spool. I usually carry 10, 15, 20, and 30#. If I need higher I just surgeons knot onto the 20 or 30#. The only thing I don't like is that I break one or two of the spools a year usually due to clumsiness etc. Have you found a source of sturdier spools? The price of the cheap triple fish mono leader material is low enough that even if I buy it just for the spool I can live with it, but It always takes me a month to pick one up because I forget when I'm in the shop/store. I want to say I learned about keeping pre-tied tippets on that style spool from Lefty, however I no longer recall. I know he was the first person I knew of that kept 1/4# spools in a koozie which I also do. I started doing both about 20yrs ago and it all blends after a while. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

 

To the OP,

For my leaders I just match the butt section of my leader (Ande again) to the stiffness of my fly line and then drop it in 10# increments until my next drop will be my tippet. That is usually only 1 or 2 drops. This is not a hard and fast rule, If I need to change to a different tippet I generally don't change or replace my butt section while out on the water. That is my intent though when I tie leaders. I also use the Harro version of the no slip loop at the light end of my butt section so if I do end up going from say 30# to 30# I get really close to 100%. I just use a perfection loop at the heavy end of my butt section. I have been known to use a poor boy leader from time to time as well, I guess mine is just poorer that the Capt's since it is just a single piece of mono from fly line to fly (40, 50,or 60#). Some people call that a level leader. I try to avoid that though because I don't like to be faced with the choice between having to risk breaking my fly line or having to retrieve a fly out of a skeeter/no-see-um infested mangrove because I can't straighten the hook etc. Yes I have broken off flys just to stay out of the bushes on particularly bad bug days.

[Betty 0]

Here in the NE I use a leader like Capt Bob's. Sink rate of the fly and line type will get the fly where it needs to be.....example for summer flounder a sinking line with a Clouser using medium eyes works well from shore. In a boat I'll use lead core, short leader and heavy eye flys. For spring stripers a floating line with a Clouser has great jigging action.