Hackle Orientation

[piddledplugs 0]

This is an intro and a question...I'm from mid-eastern WV, and I've been fly fishing for about 2 years now. I'm trying to learn to tie my own flies now. I've been enjoying reading these forums for quite a while, and I appreciate the knowledge base that's available.

 

My question has to do with the orientation of hackles on dry flies. I'm sure that it's been answered in the forums, but I wasn't able to find it. On your typical Catskill style dry flies, are the hackles oriented with the dull side of the feather toward the hook eye (opposite of the way a typical soft hackle would be tied)?

 

I've seen videos & step by steps where some tiers seem to orient them differently, and there are few that actually state how they're oriented as if it's supposed to be common knowledge. Is it personal preference? Does it actually affect the dry fly? I kind of had the understanding that with the hackle fibers dull side toward the hook eye helped to keep the fly from sinking as quickly. I can't explain the rationale behind that, but that's just what I think I'd read somewhere.

 

And then I look at stimulators and tiers seem to tie those hackles (body & collar) in all manner of orientations. Again, does it really matter? Maybe different water conditions dictate the orientation that should be used? Just personal choice?

 

Anyway, if it really matters I would think that more recipes would make it a point to specify how the hackle should be oriented.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks!

-pp

[Crackaig 0]

Way back when I was taught it was always "good side forward". I can see no way that turning this around would add to the "floatability" of the fly. With modern genetic hackles it is possible to get the hackle barbs to stand out at exactly 90 degrees to the hook shank. It looks amazing on certain flies, but a lot of the time overly pristine, giving them a false look.

 

As it doesn't make much difference either way I would say it is up to you. The vast majority do it good side forward. I only know one author who advocates it the other way around. What you should do though, is always do it the same way, so that your flies are consistent.

 

If you double the hackle (fold it before or as you wind it) then you will want the good side forward. Hackle will not double well, if at all, working against the natural lie of the hackle.

 

Cheers,

C.

[rockworm 0]

I think it was AK Best who described wrapping the hackle, shiny side facing forward, from just behind the eye to behind the wings and then, with the shiny side facing the tail, wrapping back to the eye. This gives a more spread-out footprint, with hackle fibers pointing in all directions. I believe this helps the fly remain afloat in rough water. Best argues this presents a more natural footprint to the fish.

[Old Hat 0]

I agree with Crackaig on the point that many dry flies are too pristine nowadays and actually give a poorer profile or imprint. I don't think it matters too much on fishing flies which way it is tied. I usually start at the eye with shiny side forward, wrap back in fairly open wraps and largely angled toward the back of the fly, then once at the back of the thorax, return the wraps to the head open and largely angled toward the eye. It's a little messy looking but gives a good open leg imprint on the water. Now with that said, I wouldn't do that on a fly I was showing to public. There is somewhat of a standard of dense hackle with shiny side forward, but no one says you must adhere to the standard. Experiment and so what you like and works for you. So to answer your question, I would say personal preference with a little bit of technique and water condition your fishing to dictate how you go about it. Don't limit yourself to one way.

[djtrout 0]

echo the above advice.

i would just say, about fly tying - experiment and see your results, decide what works for you. fish your flies and let your experience teach you. it doesn't hurt to receive others' experiences and advice, but in the end there are many ways to do just about anything on a fly.

 

i don't see much difference on small, say, 12 and smaller flies, either way i do it. i do good side forward most of the time, but for no particular reason. hackle wraps back through itself well (i do it like Rockworm's suggestion when i tie nice bushy Wulff flies).

 

one thing I've started lately that helps me fight crowding the eye is to tie in my hackle at the forward position (head) and wrap back, tying down the hackle behind the wing and wrapping forward with thread to finish the head. makes a neat head and is less fussy for me. the thread does not interfere with the hackle, with a little care wrapping. when tying parachutes, i tie down the hackle behind the wing rather than on the eye end, then wrap the thread forward.

 

the factor that affects my hackle wrapping more than anything is keeping a smooth surface to wrap on. when i first started tying i'd get a big lumpy knot of thread on the shank around the wing, so when i wrapped the hackle it angled in odd directions. to solve it i sometimes take a few wraps behind the eye to keep a level surface between the eye and wing, and also watch how I taper from the wing back through the abdomen. if i cut the wing material off short just right at the wing and don't taper at all the hackle will not wind well. if i use too much wing material i'll have difficulty winding a nice hackle.

 

2 cents worth ...

[SilverCreek 0]

For what I have heard, in the early days of India necks, dry fly hackle was not that stiff. So the fly was tied with the concave dull side forward. The reason was that the cast would bend the hackle toward vertical. If it was tied already facing to the rear, the casting would bend it back even more.

 

I think I heard this on one of Tom Rosenberg's podcasts.

 

Now with the hackle being stiffer, does it matter?

 

With AK Best's method as Rockworm describes, the sections of hackle overwrap (cross over) each other just in back and in front of the upright wing so the fibers in back of the wing are splayed out toward the tail and those in front of the wing are splayed toward the eye creating a thicker thorax and a wider hackle footprint on the water.

[piddledplugs 0]

Thanks for the info everyone! Sounds like it's primarily personal choice. Being a beginner and found it to be quite confusing having not heard anyone say "well you can wrap it this way or that way; doesn't matter". I'll likely never tie a fly for show.

 

Thanks again! These forums are great!

 

-pp

[FlaFly 0]

Don't say never.... never is a real long time.

[mikechell 0]

Don't say never.... never is a real long time.

LOL There are several instances where "never" and "forever" can apply.