Feather Emporium; Honest?? Anybody Using Them?

[vb1971 0]

Hi David (feather emporium)

 

Just want to advise you and the group that my purchase from feather emporium has arrived on time and with USPS postal tracking they are now sitting on my fly tying bench here in Melbourne Australia! Cant wait to use them and even paying a premium for freight it has cost me only a fraction of what it costs to buy quality feathers in Australia.

 

For all you fellow Aussies out there who are not sure I recommend DEFINITELY giving FE a go

 

Cheers

VB

[BobHRAH 0]

The unfortunate nature of several of these individual transactions with FE appear to be somewhat isolated based on they comprise a fairly small percentage of posts; the total of which exceeds what I can recall seeing on just about any other topic...wow! Hope it works out to the satisfaction of all involved.

 

I have purchased various products from Dave when he used to vend at various fly shows here in Chicagoland. They were sold in bulk bins, but I have always been pleased with the quality/value. They were not marketed as Whiting. But I was able to inspect them before purchasing.

 

However, if I were ordering a premium product upwards of let's say $50 that someone claims to be a Whiting product, I certainly expect it to be properly labeled as such. Whiting has established itself as the premier supplier of feather products, and I feel that I am entitled to be sure that I am receiving their product as their name and reputation are part of the reason I would select the item and pay top dollar.

I understand that a retailer may buy in unpackaged bulk, but what protects the consumer? Could this lead to 'counterfeit' products of inferior quality being sold in Whiting (or any other name brand) packaging.

 

It's a retailer's business decision to sell name brand products without verifying to the consumer that they are the Brand as claimed. The 'proof may in the pudding' of the quality of the item when received. But again, the Brand reputation is part of why I would buy the item on the internet.

 

IMHO, Thanks, Bob H

[David Roberts 0]

Pushing "counterfeit" Whiting pelts is not possible. These are not watches or purses. Feather quality aside, no other feather grower processes the skins as Whiting does. Put 10 unmarked pelts out on a table and any fly tyer can immediately identify which are Whiting.

 

Go ahead and compare the skin and the trim job on your Whiting pelt to any other grower's pelt. Most don't even trim them. I'm not sure why, even if the feather quality of these pelts were to be better than Whiting's, the retail presentation is poor. Some look no better than road kill.

 

That being said, I have seen "counterfeiting" over the internet. When the ladies were wearing feathers in their hair, I would see loose feathers listed on Ebay as Whiting hackle. It was obvious to anyone who knew feathers, the barring, shape, etc, that they were not. The merchants on Ebay were trying to trade on Whiting's good name and charge a higher price for junk. That didn't last long.

 

Whiting Farms has work hard for over 20 years to build their good name. They closely follow the distributors of their product. If they found that I was jeopardizing their good name in any way, my account would be closed, I'd be sued, and out of business.

 

So if any readers of this mile long thread think it possible for me, or any other internet retailer, to pull a fast one on you or Dr. Tom Whiting, guess again.

[artimus001 0]

^^^^i think that is a solid fact that is indisputable.^^^^

 

the only question i have after all of this is; what are your shipping charges for Canada?

[Tony300wby 0]

 

Wheew......I've managed to read through this thread in its entirety. Now I need a nap. It seems very clear to me, Dave (nice site by the way) isn't asking for anything that is unreasonable or out of the ordinary. I don't know of any business that would refund a customer's money before they returned the product. I'm sure Dave will refund the money if Barry sends back the cape.....and I'm fairly certain that he will in light of the fact that this thread would be fired up and active if Barry didn't get his money back after sending the cape.

 

It seems that Barry just wants to be right and Dave wants to get it right.

 

Barry,

 

Take a lesson from Ray. He worked it out.

Smitty, wrong, I don't want to be right, I just want verification that the product I recieved is as advertised. So far all I've got is a lot of " spin" from Roberts but no proof

Yep, it's boring but Roberts insists on personal attacks on me , but no verification. I was hoping Whiting might provide that. Don't know about you, but I hate being ripped off

 

 

Personally if I find the feather quality good I don't really care what breeder it came from. I have found Whiting hackle to be of higher quality then other breeders and it is usually apparent to a experienced tyer that knows what they are looking at. I would guess that even if Dr. Whiting had your questionable cape in his hand, he still would not be able to give you a 100% guarantee that it was a Whiting cape since no two capes will ever be exactly alike. I would think that the only way of being 100% sure would be a DNA test. As another person already said, I really doubt Whiting would sit back and allow anyone to use their name to sell product. I would also think that if another breeder was providing quality hackle that they would just market it under their own name. Plus if someone was going through the trouble of selling a bootleg cape, why would they not just print out bootleg cardboard too?

 

Good luck, Tony

 

PS,

 

Feather Emporium,

 

Very nice site! I remember a company called "Fly Tyer Variants" or something similar, I think they were located in NJ? That sold some Whiting hackle at shows that was not labelled or packaged.

[SilverCreek 0]

 

Personally if I find the feather quality good I don't really care what breeder it came from. I have found Whiting hackle to be of higher quality then other breeders and it is usually apparent to a experienced tyer that knows what they are looking at. I would guess that even if Dr. Whiting had your questionable cape in his hand, he still would not be able to give you a 100% guarantee that it was a Whiting cape since no two capes will ever be exactly alike. I would think that the only way of being 100% sure would be a DNA test. As another person already said, I really doubt Whiting would sit back and allow anyone to use their name to sell product. I would also think that if another breeder was providing quality hackle that they would just market it under their own name. Plus if someone was going through the trouble of selling a bootleg cape, why would they not just print out bootleg cardboard too?

 

Good luck, Tony

 

 

 

 

+++ to the above.

 

Certainly one pays a premium for Whiting hackle. As a tier who always examines hackle before purchase and buys the Pro grade hackle, I don't care if my hackle is Whiting or not. If I examine the cape and think it is what I want, I buy it regardless of what is on the stamped on the back of the skin.

 

What I want is a hackle that has the right color, stiffness, size range, with minimum web and curvefor the lfies I am tying. If it meets my needs, then I buy it.

[portlyjoe 0]

Reading this thread was so long, that I was able to eat an entire half gallon of Breyers ice cream, missed my son grow two inches and now have developed brain cancer from all the uv rays that have embedded themselves in my body.

[Wlai 0]

It seems clear that David and FE aren't bad people, and he is fundamentally honest seller. No one spend that much time describing the conditions of each of his "Bargain Bin" feathers unless they care.. I can totally imagine him as the typical hectic merchant at a show, and if I'm at the show to see him eye-to-eye I'd have no problem buying from him.

 

David my company build web sites for eCommerce, so I'd just say this: FE.com isn't really setup to deliver the level of service that most people expect these days. It's probably not your fault, but it is your responsibility. I think you just have inadequate tools which require you to do everything manually and that makes it overwhelming for one person. Doesn't have to be that way.

 

If you want to PM me I'd be happy to give free advice on how to make it easier on yourself. There are tools out there that can make your online sales much easier, so you won't have to deal with the mess that you work under today. These problem have been solved a thousand times, and you can provide much better service and generate much better revenue for yourself if you are open to make some changes on the site.

 

Or not. It's your shop, you can do whatever you want, and if this suits you then by all means. But customers, particularly those who don't know you from this thread, are going to keep giving you complaints. So be ready and try to not get so defensive online. It may feel good for a moment but it's not good for business.

 

My 2 cents...

[elderbarry 0]

Well, goodnight all! Maybe the internet will destroy our society, but I doubt it. If people would follow a few common sense rules about business, most "complaints" would end very quickly. My hats off to David and I wish you would hire some help! Barry the guide, may you live to 194, I will continue to purchase from F.E. and others as I have before and will not expect instant gratification! Great site, Tremendous source of information, Thank you, and again goodnight!

[Guest]

Great thread, only problem I have with hackle breeders is that in their quest for the perfect feather they either ignore the spade hackle or trim it off before they package it!!!!

[JSzymczyk 0]

Did you guys see the size of that chicken?

 

 

bwaaa ha ha ha ha ha!!! :D :D

[RogueFlies 0]

After reading this thread I'm definitely looking at placing an order with FE. It's nice when a business owner has the balls to stand by his principles and still offer a way to make a customer hapoy, no matter how unreasonable and utterly moronic they might be. Not saying I'll act in such a way, but I've been looking at he sight for some time and was wandering if the service was quality. David, you'll be hearing from me soon just need to figure out what I need haha

[wyoroy 0]

I also thought I would give him the benefit of the doubt and try him. My first order was perfect, came quick and great feathers. My second order never came, emails went unanswered, I finally filed with paypal and got my money back, David never responded in any way. Very poor behavior.

[pica 0]

I also thought I would give him the benefit of the doubt and try him. My first order was perfect, came quick and great feathers. My second order never came, emails went unanswered, I finally filed with paypal and got my money back, David never responded in any way. Very poor behavior.

 

...This is your first post? Hard to imagine you'd join this forum just to make complaint directed at an E-retailer . Guys you are buying items on the internet and then having them shipped which fairly screams "Caveat Emptor" I for one I do like davids products but if you want a sure thing head for a brick and mortar and you will never be surprised again. I for one enjoy taking a bit of a risk buying products on the Web but I understand that perhaps the item is not perfect or is out of retail packaging and I accept that for the opportunity to buy it at a reduced price or to perhaps obtain something I cannot purchase locally. Oh,and Please accept a warm welcome to the flytying forum David, glad to have you here. I know there are a lot of good folks here who benefit from you business. Best of luck on your venture and as old "Vinegar" Joe would say "Illegitimi non carborundum"

Michael

[Harold Ray 0]

...This is your first post? Hard to imagine you'd join this forum just to make complaint directed at an E-retailer

There are quite a few people on boards who either never post or seldom post at all; that is not uncommon on any discussion site. To my knowledge having no previous posts before or a single post, does not limit one's ability or right to reply to a subject or thread on a particular topic.

 

. Guys you are buying items on the internet and then having them shipped which fairly screams "Caveat Emptor"

Hardly, unless you live somewhere where purchasing on the internet is a new or unusual and unreliable method of commerce. In Texas and the United States, along with Europe, both east and western countries, this method of commerce has been tried and proven over the last two decades. I don't know the exact ratio, but if online purchasing wasn't reliable, people would not be buying online.

 

I for one I do like davids products but if you want a sure thing head for a brick and mortar and you will never be surprised again.

The products I received from Feather Emporium and David were quality feathers, too; I have purchased from him two or three times. My only dissatisfaction arose when I purchased nearly $400.00 worth of feathers and they did not arrive. After conversations and e-mails, they still did not arrive, so I began this thread. Once I did that, I did receive my purchase, and those feathers were very nice and exactly what I ordered about two months before. Would you have preferred I not complain and just chalk it up to experience?

 

I have ordered thousands of dollars worth of goods online; this is the way I shop, and in all the years I have done this and all the money spent with many large and small reliable companies, I can think of only one instance in which I did not receive my order, and it was for far less than $400.00.

 

I for one enjoy taking a bit of a risk buying products on the Web but I understand that perhaps the item is not perfect or is out of retail packaging and I accept that for the opportunity to buy it at a reduced price or to perhaps obtain something I cannot purchase locally.

For me, purchasing on the internet is not a risk; this is one of the largest methods of commerce worldwide populated by honest companies, large and small, and individuals who, through honest and prompt sales and service, build companies that last over the decades. When the "net" becomes risky, it will cease to be a force in world commerce.

 

I do not have major outlets for quality flyfishing or tying goods and materials near me, so I buy online; I have bought rods, reels, nearly all of my flytying materials, along with firearms, clothes, shoes and boots, basically you name it, online from stores, individuals, and through ebay. I have not lost anything and made good to great purchases thousands of time. Heck, I spend too much but I enjoy buying and I enjoy using what I have bought, and the vast majority of my purchases have been on the internet. And, when a products was not as advertised, I sent it back for a refund or the correct product.

 

Oh,and Please accept a warm welcome to the flytying forum David, glad to have you here. I know there are a lot of good folks here who benefit from you business.

 

From what I have seen, David does have good products and no one wishes him anything but success, but success comes from good service and public relations. A client has to receive what they ordered in a timely fashion for that to be the case.

 

I have seen several here who seem to deride those of us who haven't received the best of service or communications from Feather Emporium. Had we received good or great service and the goods for which we paid, you would never have heard a word.

 

and as old "Vinegar" Joe would say "Illegitimi non carborundum"

No one "grinds anyone down" and "no one needs to be ground down" if they are honest, responsible, and do their job promptly and well. As for your taking risks on the internet, you must be frequenting unreliable sites or not using the internet that I have used for twenty years.

 

I also noticed you have only 32 posts; that is certainly a pretty small number to give you the right to lecture anyone.

 

Have a GREAT day!