Copper john body

[[email protected] 0]

How do i get the wire wrapped body to be smooth and taper? I always get gaps in between the wire wraps and i can't get that smooth taper.

[williamhj 0]

It starts with your thread base. Build up a base of thread that gives you the taper you are looking for. also make sure the thread base is smooth. some people spin the bobbin to flatten out the thread (depending on the kind you are using) to help create a smooth base for the wire. If the thread base it bumpy then it will be harder to get touching wraps with the wire.

[flytire 0]

smooth underbody helps but isn't enough. you can still wrap the wire and have gaps

 

I angle the wire toward the bend of the hook while making touching wraps forward to the eye of the hook

 

angling the wire back slightly as you wrap will allow the next wrap to roll off the edge of the previous wrap butting the turns together

[Cannonx4 0]

Take your finger nail and push the wraps together as you go.

[JoeBillingsley 0]

Barr recommends using UTC thread that will lie on the hook flatter and smoother if it is spun and flattened out. I'm sure any floss-like thread will work. I have tied a few recently with several strands of dark colored Krystal Flash running along the back of the abdomen and securing it with every fourth wrap of wire, like Morrish's Iron Sally, and then covering it lightly with UV resin or head cement. I have no idea if it will be any more or less effective than the original, but it looks really good in the fly box.

 

Joe

[bellevue.chartreuse.trout 0]

This is a little freaky - I've just been tying some copper johns and all the comments sound like great advice. I think I need to try the UTC (or similar) thread to smooth-out the under-body.

[muskyhunter81 0]

Some things I have done are, UTC thread flattened and built up after tying in the biots, and wire, slightly pulling the copper towards the bend of the hook while wrapping the copper around the shank and using thread that is a similar color as the copper for the underbody of the copper abdomen (this doesn't fix the spacing it just makes the spacing issues less obvious). Just whipfinish the colored thread when you are done wrapping the copper for the amdomen and start new thread when you start the thorax. One other thing to try is using a different size copper wire. Oh and one last thing practice over and over until its looks the way you want it to.

 

Just some things I have done.

[SilverCreek 0]

How do i get the wire wrapped body to be smooth and taper? I always get gaps in between the wire wraps and i can't get that smooth taper.

 

My belief is that you have not found a good tutorial that shows you how to properly tie a Copper John. The very, very best tutorial I know of was by Harry Mason who passed a few years ago. Fortunately his SBS instruction for the Copper John is still available although his web site no longer is. It can be found at the web archive.

 

When you see the step by step process, you will see that it is not just the building a thread base on the bare hook. The taper is built up gradually as you wrap the lead wire at the thorax, and then wrap the biots up and over the back edge of the lead wire leading up to the brass bead head. Then you start the copper wire, just in back of the lead wire, and wrap it back to the biots before starting to wrap it forward.

 

The taper is not just multiple wraps of thread over each other, but the gradual build up of the underbody by the materials that were added before the forward wrapping of the copper body.

 

Copy and save Harry's step by step instruction because who knows how long it will still be available. His technique is impeccable. RIP Harry. You were one of a kind and your instructions still hold up to this day.

 

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20130222022739/http://www.troutflies.com/tutorials/cjohn/index.shtml

 

While you are at it, you might want to copy the rest of his tutorials:

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20100421201255/http://www.troutflies.com/tutorials/

[flytire 0]

copper john tutorial

 

http://www.charliesflyboxinc.com/flybox/details.cfm?parentID=17

 

notice the angle of the wire in step 14. read the instructions in the box to the left of the photo

 

ANY THREAD that can be spun into a flat ribbon can be used to wrap the smooth underbody

[Crackaig 0]

Good advice so far but I notice one omission. While people have mentioned building a tapered under body of thread, no one has quantified how you go about this. When I have seen this done in demos it has more often than not been a case of winding on a load of thread and hoping.

 

Here is how I go about teaching this technique.

 

• Lay a bed of thread in touching turns to the tie in point of the tail. Tie in the tail then return the thread in touching turns over the length of the tapered body.
• Work back toward the tail, again in touching turns. Stop a few turns short of the end of the previous layer.
• Take an open turn back towards the eye. About the same distance as you made this layer short of the previous layer.
• Work over the remaining length of the body to the eye end of the tapered body.
• Continue working back and forth in this way until you have a completed under body.

Doing it deliberately in this way is the only way I have found to quantify how to do it. Also this method doesn't slip as just randomly winding thread into a taper can.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Cheers,

C.

[mikechell 0]

• Take an open turn back towards the eye. About the same distance as you made this layer short of the previous layer.

Cheers,

C.

What is the purpose of this open turn?

[redietz 0]

 

• Take an open turn back towards the eye. About the same distance as you made this layer short of the previous layer.

Cheers,

C.

What is the purpose of this open turn?

 

It advances the thread without building bulk where you want the body to be thinner.

[bellevue.chartreuse.trout 0]

Does a 'open turn back towards the eye.' happen at the last turn at the hook bend before starting back up the hook shank toward the eye?

(apologies for complicating this)

BCT

[Hatchet Jack 0]

Forgive my ignorance, but I too am having difficulty visualizing this.

Work back toward the tail, again in touching turns. Stop a few turns short of the end of the previous layer.

So far, so good.

 

Take an open turn back towards the eye.

So the thread spans the entire hook shank in one long (open) turn, from previous 'few turns short', to near the hook eye?

 

About the same distance as you made this layer short of the previous layer.
Work over the remaining length of the body to the eye end of the tapered body.

Continue working back and forth in this way until you have a completed under body.

Help!

[ihang10 0]

Hatchet Jack,

 

Make a full length wrap and back to the eye

 

Then make a 3/4 length wrap, them back to the eye

 

Then make a 1/2 length wrap, back to the eye, so on and so forth.

 

The wraps of 3/4 and 1/2 will overlap and build up bulk giving you a tappered body.