Fun Times with a Conservation Officer

[Gene L 0]

Basically, to do any search an officer needs probable cause and a warrant. OR, and the big OR here is "an exigent circumstance." If the thing to be searched is mobile (like a car or a boat) in which the officer needs PC or an articulateable suspicion and you can't get a warrant because of time shortages. No LEO could search a home without a warrant or some other extenuating circumstance. Which is very rare.

 

Nothing superceedes Amendment 4 of the Constitution. Certainly not an appointment as a CO. Argument should be carried out in court, not in the woods or on a river.

[artimus001 0]

thanx for clearing up the 4th issue. i figured Canada and the US were on the same page.

 

one of the main reasons i carry a camera is to avoid any arguments, and the need to go to court. LEOs stand up pretty straight when they are dealt with in this manner. the last thing they want to deal with is a citizen that knows their rights, and are willing to hold them accountable.

 

i will be honest, i snicker every-time i see the back stiffen when they see the red light and that this is not going to be "by the book".

[kennebec12 0]

This whole thing got me wondering about the actual laws. I dug through a big pile of the Maine statutes and nothing really expressly states their duties in respect to searches, they can enforce any fish and game regulations and any criminal law matters and traffic violations though. Apparently this whole deal is a pretty big gray area across the US. Here is an article I dug up in my search http://www.hastingsconlawquarterly.org/archives/V13/I1/OConnor.pdf I find it interesting. I really don't have a problem with them checking my cooler or whatever, I follow the laws, I have nothing to hide. I just have a problem with the way I have been treated during routine stops, and the fact that they have told me incorrect laws in an effort to coerce me into breaking the law, I know the law and I know what they are doing and I don't agree with it. Search my cooler, check my flies, but there's no need for them to be jerks about it.

 

All told I've been checked by wardens 12 times that I can remember off the top of my head, not a single check resulted in any violations, and all but one of those stops were an unpleasant experience where I believe I was mistreated. I spend a very large quantity of time in the woods (probably 40 of the 52 weekends in a year), whether I'm fishing, hunting, hiking, or just out exploring for waterfalls and other beautiful places. And many times when I am out I am travelling 30 or 40 miles through the woods on logging roads to reach very remote waters or low pressure hunting grounds, so it stands to reason that I run into wardens quite frequently by chance alone.

[ditz2 0]

This is a good place to relate an incidence that I was involved in several years ago......A group of us visited the Boundry Waters every year and we usually used the same outfitter every year. We had been out in the wilds for a week or so and ate a lot of fish but had no way to bring any back to civilization since there was no ice machines back in the Quetico. We had done this trip several years and never had any problems. On this particular trip we stopped at the outfitters and we all took some badly needed showers and readied to take the last leg out of the area. The outfitter said that he had some frozen walleye fillets that we could take with us since at the time an angler was allowed to take one days limit of fillets out of Canada back to the states. We all huddled to discuss the option and we reluctantly decided to pass on the offer so we left the area fishless. Just before getting back to civilization there is a Border check station. Every year someone would go up and 'check out' of Canada and return to the canoes and off we would go. This time 2 DNR officers came down to the dock and split us up into 2 different groups and put us on opposite ends of the long dock and grilled us on taking any fish out with us. Of course we all said that that we had no fish. The conversation was intense and lasted several minutes. The then required that we empty the canoes of all our gear and had to spread it all out on the dock. They found no fish and they seemed disturbed by all this and they huddled and had a private conversation. They finally allowed us to go on our way but the whole ordeal seemed like the officers were sure we were dirty. I still believe that for some reason there had been a conspiracy to set us up for something. .....I sure was happy that we did not take the frozen fish though it should have been legal as I see it. Any thoughts?????

[tidewaterfly 0]

I've heard of such experiences in VA. It seems there's a lot of misinterpretation & inconsistent enforcement of the fish & game laws there. The few times I've fished in VA waters I was covered by my MD license (reciprocal agreement) & it wasn't for trout, so that was never an issue & I've never had any encounters with any of the VA CO's.

 

There was one very large VA State Trooper I had some dealing with once many years ago with my truck driving job, but he was very polite & professional!

 

Here in MD I've been checked several times over the years, and can honestly say I've never had any bad encounters with the Natural Resources Police. Every one of them have been friendly & professional and appeared to be reasonable in their approach with dealing with folks. I've never had any issues either, so it's easy to deal with them when you know you're doing things correctly & within the law. I'm a bit frustrated with many things here in this state, and our Dept. Of Natural Resources has it's problems particularly with some fisheries management policies, but I don't feel the NRP is a problem. They do a good job IMO.

[ihang10 0]

This is a good place to relate an incidence that I was involved in several years ago......A group of us visited the Boundry Waters every year and we usually used the same outfitter every year. We had been out in the wilds for a week or so and ate a lot of fish but had no way to bring any back to civilization since there was no ice machines back in the Quetico. We had done this trip several years and never had any problems. On this particular trip we stopped at the outfitters and we all took some badly needed showers and readied to take the last leg out of the area. The outfitter said that he had some frozen walleye fillets that we could take with us since at the time an angler was allowed to take one days limit of fillets out of Canada back to the states. We all huddled to discuss the option and we reluctantly decided to pass on the offer so we left the area fishless. Just before getting back to civilization there is a Border check station. Every year someone would go up and 'check out' of Canada and return to the canoes and off we would go. This time 2 DNR officers came down to the dock and split us up into 2 different groups and put us on opposite ends of the long dock and grilled us on taking any fish out with us. Of course we all said that that we had no fish. The conversation was intense and lasted several minutes. The then required that we empty the canoes of all our gear and had to spread it all out on the dock. They found no fish and they seemed disturbed by all this and they huddled and had a private conversation. They finally allowed us to go on our way but the whole ordeal seemed like the officers were sure we were dirty. I still believe that for some reason there had been a conspiracy to set us up for something. .....I sure was happy that we did not take the frozen fish though it should have been legal as I see it. Any thoughts?????

I fished Canada last year and their limits seemed confusing based on the lake/water you were on. I didn't keep anything either, daily possession or otherwise. Ironically I don't eat fish, so it's not a huge debate for me.

 

I was on crown lands above quetico, so I didn't have your experience crossing back, but I have heard the remote crossing are not always easy. I can imagine they see their fair share of problems though.

[phg 0]

...

if that was on the back of any type of game license, or drivers licence (seriously??) anywhere in the free world there would be a revolt. there is a reason when i comes to the legal stuff; links, pics or vids.

....

If you want to try to fight this, go ahead and try. I'll even cheer for you, ... but you won't win.

[artimus001 0]

 

...

if that was on the back of any type of game license, or drivers licence (seriously??) anywhere in the free world there would be a revolt. there is a reason when i comes to the legal stuff; links, pics or vids.

....

If you want to try to fight this, go ahead and try. I'll even cheer for you, ... but you won't win.

 

i'm Canadian

 

links, .pdf, jpeg,,, you got anything?

[mikechell 0]

 

 

 

Read the fine print on the back of your license. You waved your rights when you bought it. Same with your driver's license.

 

Just as a point of note ... I just checked both. My driver's license only gives "consent to sobriety tests". Nowhere does it give consent to search, or any other suspension of rights.

My five year fishing license does not wave ANY rights.

[artimus001 0]

This is a good place to relate an incidence that I was involved in several years ago......A group of us visited the Boundry Waters every year and we usually used the same outfitter every year. We had been out in the wilds for a week or so and ate a lot of fish but had no way to bring any back to civilization since there was no ice machines back in the Quetico. We had done this trip several years and never had any problems. On this particular trip we stopped at the outfitters and we all took some badly needed showers and readied to take the last leg out of the area. The outfitter said that he had some frozen walleye fillets that we could take with us since at the time an angler was allowed to take one days limit of fillets out of Canada back to the states. We all huddled to discuss the option and we reluctantly decided to pass on the offer so we left the area fishless. Just before getting back to civilization there is a Border check station. Every year someone would go up and 'check out' of Canada and return to the canoes and off we would go. This time 2 DNR officers came down to the dock and split us up into 2 different groups and put us on opposite ends of the long dock and grilled us on taking any fish out with us. Of course we all said that that we had no fish. The conversation was intense and lasted several minutes. The then required that we empty the canoes of all our gear and had to spread it all out on the dock. They found no fish and they seemed disturbed by all this and they huddled and had a private conversation. They finally allowed us to go on our way but the whole ordeal seemed like the officers were sure we were dirty. I still believe that for some reason there had been a conspiracy to set us up for something. .....I sure was happy that we did not take the frozen fish though it should have been legal as I see it. Any thoughts?????

Stay out of the Boundary Waters

[ditz2 0]

I do stay out of the boundry waters now. I am too out of shape for the heavy activity required for the portaging. It is a wonderful place to go and I did it several times and would go back. That was the only time there was ever an issue and it was not really bad but it seemed that there had been a conspiracy to set us up for a huge fine. Fines up there can go into several thousand dollars for offenses such as taking glass containers into the area. If you go into the boundry area you best know the rules and you better follow them. It can get quite ugly otherwise. If you are interested in some unpressured fishing it is a great place to go and it is beautiful. The area is visited by a lot of people every year but few even bother to take a fishing rod. On the several visits I have seen a few paddlers but never anyone else fishing. We always set up a base camp in an area that gave easy access to many other fishing locations. From base camp all we needed to take with us was cooking tools, foul weather gear, and our fishing stuff which was a rod/reel and a bag of lures. I never toted my fly gear. Each of us only took rod/reel and tackle and a spare rod/reel in case of a mishap. The best option was a small bait caster and a light rod. .....These trips were not fly-ins.....you carried everything in on your back and then brought it back out. I wore the same clothes out that I wore in and if I got to feeling too nasty I would take PTA bath. The water is very cold and will give you head ache if you just jump in. The big lakes can and do get very rough. Go prepared and take only half of what you think you really need. Breakfast was Oats and coffee and fish and taters was the other two meals. What great memories.

[artimus001 0]

when LEOs go on the warpath, the need to protect your rights become imperative. by refusing to answer any questions, and refuse to comply to any searches you place the entire burden of proof against the LEO. group situations are more complicated. it requires total solidarity. all it takes is one person to surrender their rights to make life difficult for the rest.

 

if you do find yourself in an interrogation, it helps to understand the tools that will be used against you. most every LEO works from the same play book.

this is my favourite video dealing with this subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

here is a breakdown of the questioning technique: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_technique

[artimus001 0]

don't get me wrong. defending your rights takes guts, smarts, a good ear, and a cool head. the distance from defending to obstruction is very short.

[ihang10 0]

We were north of the boundary waters last July out of Atikokan and the lakes were like bath water. Our guide said once the granite heats up, and the days get long it's pretty good.

 

The mayfly hatch was unreal. Millions probably isn't a large enough number.

[ditz2 0]

I guess the work 'warm' leaves a lot for interpretation. I have been to the Boundry waters area in June, July, August, and the first part of September and I would never have called the water warm. The trip in the first part of Sept. It frosted on us several times. ....One of our group took his son of about 12 to a beach like area for a bath and poured a bucket of water over his head to rinse his hair and the poor fella had a bad headache for the remainder of the day. That water was cold.