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flyguy613

Tippet size

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If I have a 6wt fly rod and am using 4x leader should I be using 5x Tippet?

 

At first I thought to use 4x Tippet as well as I was under the impression the idea was to match the gauge of the leader after it tapers down

 

Any info appreciated, I am completely new to fly fishing thanks

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You can use either 4x or 5x tippet with a 4x leader, your choice. If I were fishing a 4x leader, I would only use 4x tippet if I wanted a longer leader. If I didn't need a longer leader I would not use any tippet at all and just fish the 4x leader. You don't have to use tippet with every leader.

If I tie a tippet on the end of my leader I almost always drop down a size, in this case I would use 5x.

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The size of the fly and desired presentation is what dictates the leader/tippet size you use not the weight of the fly line. A 4x leader/tippet would be good for most nymphing situations (size 14+ weighted nymphs) and larger dry flies as the flies get smaller start to down size your tippet. If you are starting with a knotless tapered leader add a section of tippet as you shorten the leader by breaking off or changing flies. Assuming that your fishing trout and bass my suggestion for a six weight is to have a stiff short (7.5") heavy weight 2x or 3x leader for heavily weighted and large flies, a 9' 4x for most nymphing and dry fly fishing and a 10'-12' 6x for small flies and delicate presentations or spooky fish.

 

 

Check these links out

 

http://theflyfishingbasics.com/fly-fishing-leader-and-tippet-what-why-how/

 

http://www.orvis.com/s/orvis-fly-fishing-guide-leaders-knots/5706

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The size of the tippet you use is determined by the size fly you're going to cast with it, not the size or line weight of the rod. There is something called the "Rule of 4", wherein you take the size of the fly you're wanting to use and divide it by 4, and that gives you the "X" size of tippet to use. For example, if using a size 16 fly, 16 divided by 4 is 4, so (according to the Rule of 4) 4x tippet is the largest you'd want to use with that size fly. This rule is not hard-and-fast, just kind of a general "rule of thumb" type of thing; a place to start.

 

For trout fishing, rather than carrying all different sizes of leaders, what I do now is buy 7'6" leaders tapered to 3X. That length and breaking strength works well for streamer fishing (my go-to), and I can easily extend them out to 9-9.5' for dry fly or wet fly fishing by adding a 12" of 4X and 12" of 5X. If I need something finer than 5X, I add more/finer tippet to that.

 

Whatever size tippet I end up tying to the end of a storebought leader, I always tie at least 12" of something on there, even if it's just the same size tippet as the end of the leader. That way, as I go about clipping off and tying on flies all day, I'm never cutting into my original 7'6" length, but rather to the short piece that I've added. I like to keep the original leader length intact, so that, if I go to add to it, I know what I'm starting with.

 

If that makes any sense at all.

 

Bryon

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Use the same size tippet as your leader tip or the next size down! Not one size up! Deppends on fish size too! Leader in lots of cases should be 1.5x the lenght of your rod, longer for small flies, shorter for bigger flies!

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I use the 3 rule. Divide the size of the fly by three (say a size 16 fly) and you get a 5x tippet with a little left over. Divide by 4 and you get a 4x tippet, which is pretty large for a size 16 fly.

 

Also, if you buy a 4x leader and you want to go smaller, I'd cut the leader back a bit and tie on a 5x. Otherwise, the length of the 4x leader which has a couple of feet of tippet built in, with the extra 5x tied on won't turnover as well (for me).

 

That doesn't sound clear and may be confusing.

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If I have a 6wt fly rod and am using 4x leader should I be using 5x Tippet?

 

At first I thought to use 4x Tippet as well as I was under the impression the idea was to match the gauge of the leader after it tapers down

 

Any info appreciated, I am completely new to fly fishing thanks

 

A tippet is the section that is at the end of the leader so a 4X leader already has 4x tippet on it.

 

This is how I explain leaders and tippets.

The tippet is the thinnest section of the leader that is on the end opposite the fly line. It is the level end section of leader that is attached to the fly.

The function of a leader is to transmit the energy of the cast from the fly line to the fly so as to deliver the fly accurately.

The function of the tippet is also to deliver the fly, but it's main function is eliminate drag. These two functions are opposites. To deliver the fly most accurately, the tippet must land straight; but to eliminate drag, the tippet must introduce slack. We control accuracy vs slack by controlling the tippet length, diameter, and stiffness. The shorter, thicker and stiffer the tippet the more accurate the tippet; the longer, thinner, and limber the tippet, the greater drag free drift.

One does not choose the leader or tippet according the rod weight but according to the size, weight, and air resistance of the fly. We are choosing the leader and tippet according to how difficult the fly is to cast. The more difficult the fly is to cast, the stiffer, shorter, and thicker the leader and tippet. So match the leader and tippet to the fly and not the rod.

Generally the fly size in terms of hook size is used as a guide for choosing the tippet size. Then consider the weight and the air resistance of the fly to go up or down a tippet size.

There are two "rules" for choosing the correct tippet size for a given hook size. They are the rule of 4 and the rule of 3. The rule of 4 is for beginners and the rule of 3 is for intermediate to advanced casters. You divide the hook size by either 4 or 3 to get the tippet "X" size. The rule of 4 results in a thicker tippet than the rule of 3, and beginning fly fisher needs a thicker tippet than an advanced caster to deliver the fly as accurately.

Example: For a size 16 fly, the beginner would use a 16/4 (rule of 4) or 4X tippet and the advanced caster would use a 16/3 (rule of 3) or 5x tippet.

The length of the tippet depends on the length of the leader. Most leaders are built on the 60% butt - 20% transition - 20% tippet formula. You can use this 60/20/20 formula to decide when to add new tippet to a worn leader. Using this "rule" a 9 ft leader would have a 22" tippet.

Realize that commercial leaders have to work for beginners as well as experts, but experts can cast a longer tippet section with accuracy. So I recommend that as beginners become better casters, they lengthen the tippet. Using the 20% tippet rule, I tell beginners to start with a 22" rule of 4 tippet, then as they get better, lengthen it to a 26" and then a 30" rule of 4 tippet. Then switch to a rule of 3 tippet and gradually lengthen that to 30". As they become better casters, the tippet gets longer, then thinner and longer.

Everything starts with the fly we need to cast. Fly selection determines leader and tippet size; and also determines the increasing weight of fly rods that are needed to cast that fly as fly size increases. This is actually no different than spin fishing in which the weight and size of the lure determines the line, rod and reel that are used to fish that lure.

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Just kind of match your tippet size you add to the end of your leader. Forget x's, use diameter. If you've fished at all before fly fishing you'll know for smaller things, you generally use smaller line. You wouldn't cast a 3/4 ounce plug on 4lb test while spinning, and you also wouldn't cast a 1/32 ounce jig on 20 lb test mono. Same thing on a fly rod with a leader.

 

There are not any RULES in fly fishing. The "rules" of 3 and 4 which SilverCreek mentioned are a good general guide... but not infallible or true in all situations. Additionally those rules seem to pretty much only apply in a trout-centric universe. They go all to hell when you try to apply them to bigger streamers or bass bugs. Apply the "rule of 4" to a size 4 streamer, it gives you a 1x tippet. Typical 1x tippet measuring 0.010" and 12 to 14 lb test. That's ridiculous. I commonly fish size 4 and 2 and bigger streamers on 6lb tippets (not paying attention to "x") and do it with no problems.

 

Apply a good measure of common sense to what you are doing, and you'll be just fine. There is no magic, and it is not, as they say, rocket science.

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Thanks all, last post was especially informative and really helped piece everything together.

 

So while I can get away with a 4x Tippet for a 16 nymph a 5x would allow it to be presented more naturally but at the expense of making the cast more difficult?

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I don't think it makes the cast more difficult with a 5x tippet and a 16 fly all things being equal. If you look at leader formulas, you'll see or get a good idea of tippet length that works. Generally, the preceeding leader length is shorter than the tippet length. I'm not a strictler for formulea, but they exist for a reason. Too heavy a tippet can cause problems other than it being a bit too thick for the hook eye, like transferring too much energy to the delivery (which can cause a fly to hit the water too strongly.)

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All the above information, for me, makes fishing too much like work. I don't fish to give myself MORE things to think about ... I fish to get away from all the things I have to think about while at work.

I use a length of mono from the fly line to the fly. So far, I've always caught fish.

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Increase your tippet length and watch your catch ratio go up, Epsecially when pond fishing on top. I buy all 7-1/2 ft leaders now. I used to buy 9 ft and still will if that is all I can get when away from home and need a leader. Then I add on to that. I keep 1x, 2x and 3x leaders in my vest. All of those turn over well but 1x works best for poppers. 2x and 3x are good for streamers. 2x on sinking line. That leaves 3x for general top water trout fishing. For bass poppers I add on nothing till I've cut back too much of the built in tippet, then I just add what is needed accordingly. Bass are not line shy. Brown trout on top in a pond is another whole story, line shy, fussy and learn what stings them forever, where bass get stung and 10 minutes later they will go back for the same deception. Additionally in ponds locally the midge is the number one hatch, Prolific hatches I might add. You have to get down to a tipped of 6x and sometimes 7x with size 20-24 flies if you think you are going to catch fish. A long tipped in this case is all the better. So yes, tie on a foot of 4x, maybe a foot of 5x to that then the tippet. I'll jump sizes in that last section going two sizes smaller, 3 ft long. So either 6x or 7x will tie onto the 5x piece. 11-12 ft total leader length is decent in this kind of fishing. turning leaders over is also an act of the fisherman. My stepson can turn over a hand made 18 foot leader with a 9 ft 6 weight rod. And he typically fishes a leader of 12-15 ft in total length with 3-4 ft tippets on them. He really likes his flies to be well away from colored fly line .

 

Bass are a whole different thing, It doesn't matter, the leader can be 5-6 ft long , 12lb test mono if you like or a bass bug taper that turns bugs over nice and smooth.

 

And river fishing falls in between these two extremes. In my experience. But I got to tell ya, someone mentioned a 12" tippet a few postings ago. No way will you get fish in cold clear water around here on a 12 " tippet of any size, exept maybe bass fishing but that doesn't usually occur in cold clear water but warm cloudy water.

 

Also in practice this is way less complicated than it reads, LOL !! Really what happens to me is I tie on a fly to an older leader and notice I'm not catching fish. After a while it dawns on me to actually look at my tippet. Sure enough invariably it has gotten short. So I cut it off and tie on a new one. At that point I decide if it will be the same as the leaders tippet , one size or two sizes under. I always tie on at least two ft but usually 3 ft of tippet. And go back to catching fish. It's time proven for me, I need not debate it. Locally it's mostly pond fishing though, in clear water. Up north in Maine it's mostly river fishing in clear water. I alter my plan slightly there.

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When I first started fly fishing 30+ years ago, I joined a local club and the first meeting I attended had a famous flyfisherman as a guest speaker. Another new-to-flyfishing member asked the same question and the speaker started rattling off the "rules" - the "rule of 11" regarding tippet diameter, the "rule of 3 or 4" regarding tippet size to hook size, etc.

 

Obviously there were a number of us newbies there because he looked at our completely lost expressions and said, "Look. I don't like to lose fish. Period. So I normally use the largest tippet size that fits through the eye of the hook. Don't tell anybody I said that!"

 

His response doesn't address the question of leader-to-tippet sizing or the technical aspects of tippet length or size due to drag, water clarity, spookiness of the fish, type of fly, etc. (that would have been WAY over our heads), but it kind of shows that you do what you have to do to catch fish.

 

Joe

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I look back at my early days of angling, maxima and Daiwa sensor were the only lines you really saw. Bayer made a 'hooklink' material on a blue spool too.

Did I catch fewer fish because of the line?? Honestly probably not. I caught fewer cause my feeding and swim preparation was poor. The anglers of yesteryear who caught everything swimming did so with kit we would think of as cheap, nasty, antique etc. But they knew watercraft. Buying all the latest greatest angling items will never replace learning how to fish.

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