Stacking Colors

[JasonV 0]

As i stack deer hair the thread torque pulls the top color down into my bottom color on the far side of the hook. Should I be positioning the top color closer to me to make up for this? I pull really hard when tying in a clump. Is it possible I am pulling to hard and that is why the colors torque? Or am I just being too much of a perfectionist? Any suggestions appreciated.

[williamhj 0]

Perfectionism and deer hair will drive you crazy You can position it a bit towards yourself to account for the torque. I find it helpful to hold the hair in place with my non-thread hand until the thread has secured the hair into place. Not 100% but works great for me.

[johnnyquahog 0]

Assuming you are right handed you definitely need to hold the hair (maybe pinch) with your left hand as you are torquing down on the thread. As you advance the thread forward, do a couple half hitches and drop of glue you can also make a minor adjustment. I have a couple flies that are dead on and i scratch my head wondering why I can't do that all the time.

 

tight wraps..

[Hatchet Jack 0]

A couple of things worth trying:

 

¤ some 100 denier GSP* thread - it's nice & slippery

 

¤ try winding 2, maybe 3 loose wraps, then firmly pinch the deer hair bunches,

then slowly start pulling thread taut. When it's as you like it, add a few more tight wraps & proceed.

 

*this thread is very strong for its diameter, it will cut through deer hair if pulled too harshly.

[JasonV 0]

Thanks all! I kinda figured there would be some variation, I have been using 150 Denier Veevus GSP and just ordered some 200 Denier because i was breaking the thread alot. It always seemed to break when the thread was off to the side of the spool when I was pulling so I have started unwinding a section then winding it back up so it is inline with the tube when i pull. So, I assume the thread breaking is user error?

[Dave G. 0]

I have found that breaking thread is often an action of too tight a spool tension. The thread frays in normal use and just when you need to tighten down at the most critical moment, bink, it breaks. So irritating. then the next thing is too loose a spool lol, because I spread the bobbin too much. !! When teh tension is just right , That bobbin Then becomes my favorite, the very one I accused of having a bur in it.

 

Stacking deer hair colors one over the other, I do a couple of ways. Or just wanting it on top of the hook for that matter. I pinch tight, making three or four fairly loose wraps , Then pull it down steady nice and firm but pinching just as firmly. Another way is take a couple or three wraps of thead looping the stack. So in other words, you come up from under the hook shank with your thread, encompass the stack with maybe two turns say, then down the other side of the hook shank. Again, pinch firmly, pull the thread down firmly. Don't let go of the deer hair bunch at any time in either method till you get about 4 more additional wraps around the whole head or area you are performibng the install.. Tying in deer hair one should be familiar and comfortable with The Pinch Method. I tie in with either 8/0 or 6/0 preferably Uni and use a little dubbing wax. Same with bucktail incidentally, though that is not quite a spin prone, it can slide, so can calves hair/calves tail..

[JasonV 0]

Well, After breaking the Veevus 150 gsp for the 15th time I am getting very frustrated. I am not cutting the deer hair with the thread. It is breaking consistently down by the spool. I will wait for this 200 Den gsp to get here and will hopefully have better luck.

[Dave G. 0]

Well, After breaking the Veevus 150 gsp for the 15th time I am getting very frustrated. I am not cutting the deer hair with the thread. It is breaking consistently down by the spool. I will wait for this 200 Den gsp to get here and will hopefully have better luck.

I suggest you spread the bobbin, loosen some tension on the spool. I mentioned this in my other message above already. Try it, with finer threads it's a fine line between too loose and too tight. You have nothing to lose !

[JasonV 0]

I am using a Rite Cermag Bobbin. I assume I am just pulling to hard, but I was also under the assumption I would hear the deer hair to start being cut by the thread before the thread breaks. I just need a stronger thread i am thinking. ( the 150 gsp is rated at 8lb 4oz breaking strength)

[Dave G. 0]

Ok, "Cermag", loosen the sucker up a little bit. Just Try It, You Have Absolutely Nothing To Lose. Here is how I set my bobbins. I keep loosening till I find myself always rolling thread back on the bobbin as I tie a fly. Tighten a little from there. When the working thread keeps getting longer and longer between the hook and bobbin, the bobbin is too loose. When it's too tight, the thread frays coming off the spool and it breaks right where you are describing yours breaking. Someplace in between is just right.

[JasonV 0]

I see what your saying now. I will give that a try. I probably have it cranked down.

[Bruce Derington 0]

There are several u tube vids that show how to stack, ill see what I can find

 

 

 

[JasonV 0]

Thanks guys! I have Cohen's vid on stacking and have more than likely seen most deer hair stacking vids on you tube. I can create a tight body but the color on the far side runs into the bottom color. The thread breaking came up as a side issue but they are likely related. After Dave gave his suggestion I loosened my bobbin and tied a bug without breaking the thread. I could just be more aware of the tension as well, so I will finish these poppers with this 150 gsp.

[Dave G. 0]

Great news !

 

On the turning/slipping bucktail/deer hair etc. problem, try the loop idea. Come up off the hook with the thread from the bottom, circle the bunch of hair with thread, not including the hook, just the hair, then drop down to circle the hook and perform the remaining turns of thread. This captures the material so loose pieces don't spin on you. You still have to pinch. But depending on the pattern itself, this can get you out of the woods pretty well often times. It's not so great if you want to spread the tie in point a bit. It tends to pin point the tie in.

[Fisherboy0301 0]

Great news !

 

On the turning/slipping bucktail problem, try the loop idea. Come up off the hook with the thread from the bottom, circle the bunch of bucktail with thread, not including the hook, just the bucktail, then drop down to circle the hook and perform the remaining turns of thread. This captures the bucktail so loose pieces don't spin on you. You still have to pinch. But depending on the pattern itself, this can get you out of the woods pretty well often times. It's not so great if you want the bucktail to spread a bit at the tie in point. It tends to pin point the tie in.

Deer body hair. He's tying deer hair poppers... Not with bucktail XD