Crackaig 0 Report post Posted September 22, 2015 There is a bit of history to those patterns, they came about in the search for a more productive middle dropper pattern. For some reason three flies together produces more fish to the top and bottom flies than the middle. I have gone whole seasons without a fish to the middle dropper. Those flies were a cross between a Wickham's and the Invicta. We have been calling them Highland Rough Flies. The best colour has been orange. We use them in some large sizes. Up to a size 6, tied on a Mustad R60 hook. Looking around earlier I found a photo of the Black Wickham's, from the earlier post. Cheers, C. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chuck McFarlane 0 Report post Posted September 22, 2015 There is a bit of history to those patterns, they came about in the search for a more productive middle dropper pattern. For some reason three flies together produces more fish to the top and bottom flies than the middle. I have gone whole seasons without a fish to the middle dropper. Those flies were a cross between a Wickham's and the Invicta. We have been calling them Highland Rough Flies. The best colour has been orange. We use them in some large sizes. Up to a size 6, tied on a Mustad R60 hook. Looking around earlier I found a photo of the Black Wickham's, from the earlier post. Black Wicham's_0001.jpg Cheers, C. The picture brings your earlier post to life. That's a pretty fly. The selected body hackles look to be about a gap and a quarter long to a gap and a half. I'm going to practice this style in brown with a slate wing as I don't have any suitable black hackle on hand till I get to the shop next week. This will be a good chance to try the folding technique as well. I'll let you know how I get on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dazzyd 0 Report post Posted September 25, 2015 Hi Chuck Is this the sort of wing style you are trying to tie? This has been done with two bunches of rolled mallard with a slip folded over the top - bit like a tent - to finish off. Keep trying - it's worth it in the end:) Darrell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chuck McFarlane 0 Report post Posted September 25, 2015 Hi Chuck Is this the sort of wing style you are trying to tie? This has been done with two bunches of rolled mallard with a slip folded over the top - bit like a tent - to finish off. Keep trying - it's worth it in the end:) Darrell Hi Darrell, That's a really pretty tie! I started out trying to do them with mallard slips but the results were really hit and miss. Mostly miss. I'm now working with the folded and rolled technique using three bunches and getting much better results. Not perfect, but better and at least consistent. I'm working on some Scottish and Irish loch style patterns and once I get them dialed in, I'll post a couple of examples. I agree these flies are definitely worth the effort and I've found the techniques learned to tie them have helped me improve my overall skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairwing 0 Report post Posted September 25, 2015 Chuck.... I see that you are in Japan. Have you visited Ken Sawada's website. He has lots of sparklers on there to dress up a hook shank, also some unique "gotta have" materials and hooks you don't normally find at your local shop here in the US. He entertains lots of new ties in all genres of tying. Take a look. http://www.kensawada.com/ Some of the top tyers in the world go to him for supplies. Myself I dabble in the classic wets too. The patterns are endless and very eye appealing. I'll also add an IMHO... that mallard flank is one of the hardest wing mounts to master. Like others here have suggested, I like the idea of multiple layers to get the full wing look. I think the secret is the underwing bulk that serves as a base for the final wing slips. The other way to do it is leave the stem in the two feathers.....but this might be cheating ;-) . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chuck McFarlane 0 Report post Posted September 25, 2015 Chuck.... I see that you are in Japan. Have you visited Ken Sawada's website. He has lots of sparklers on there to dress up a hook shank, also some unique "gotta have" materials and hooks you don't normally find at your local shop here in the US. He entertains lots of new ties in all genres of tying. Take a look. http://www.kensawada.com/ Some of the top tyers in the world go to him for supplies. Myself I dabble in the classic wets too. The patterns are endless and very eye appealing. I'll also add an IMHO... that mallard flank is one of the hardest wing mounts to master. Like others here have suggested, I like the idea of multiple layers to get the full wing look. I think the secret is the underwing bulk that serves as a base for the final wing slips. The other way to do it is leave the stem in the two feathers.....but this might be cheating ;-) . Ken Sawada is extremely well known over here. I use a several of his hooks and some of his materials. There is a fly shop nearby that carries practically his entire hook line. The first offerings I came across were salmon hooks and in recent years there has been a wide variety of trout and streamer hooks under his name. I'll check out the website. Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crackaig 0 Report post Posted September 26, 2015 I'm going to practice this style in brown with a slate wing as I don't have any suitable black hackle on hand till I get to the shop next week. Chuck, If you use gold tinsel that would be the original wet Wickham's. Cheers, C. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monty0681 0 Report post Posted September 26, 2015 Take a look at Davie McPhail on Youtube. He's a tyer out of Scotland, and is very,very good at teaching. He shows you how to tie a number of flies, using Gadwell and Bronze Mallard for wings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chuck McFarlane 0 Report post Posted September 26, 2015 I'm going to practice this style in brown with a slate wing as I don't have any suitable black hackle on hand till I get to the shop next week. Chuck, If you use gold tinsel that would be the original wet Wickham's. Cheers, C. Cheers Crackaig. What I really need is some decent wet fly hackle. The cheap stuff I have barely gives me 3 turns down the shank and the hackle seems far too long and sparse and the stems too stiff. Great for tailing but not for palmering or collars. I got to the shop, but I wasn't sure what I was looking for. They had hen necks. India cock necks and the full assortment of dry fly capes and saddles. I didn't want to spend money on something I'd end up not using. The best I've got right now is a metz furnace rooster cape in grade 2 And a dark badger of the same. They contain some nice saddles but probably more suited to drys. I think I need something with a softer texture and perhaps a little webbiness. Any suggestions on some suitable wet fly necks and colors that would get me started would be greatly appreciated. I'm tending toward capes as I can get a better variety of sizes for various patterns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crackaig 0 Report post Posted September 27, 2015 Have you a black Sharpie marker? If you have put a piece of card on your desk top. Put one of your dark badger hackles on it. Trap the hackle to the card with the Sharpie marker and pull the hackle under the tip of the marker. Instant black hackle. Well not quite instant, you'll have to give it a few moments to dry. Then away you go. Cheers, C. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chuck McFarlane 0 Report post Posted September 27, 2015 Take a look at Davie McPhail on Youtube. He's a tyer out of Scotland, and is very,very good at teaching. He shows you how to tie a number of flies, using Gadwell and Bronze Mallard for wings. Cheers monty0681. Davie is awesome. I watch a lot of his tutorials. He makes it look so easy through years of experience. If I could acquire even a quarter of his depth of knowledge and skill I'd be proud. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chuck McFarlane 0 Report post Posted September 27, 2015 Have you a black Sharpie marker? If you have put a piece of card on your desk top. Put one of your dark badger hackles on it. Trap the hackle to the card with the Sharpie marker and pull the hackle under the tip of the marker. Instant black hackle. Well not quite instant, you'll have to give it a few moments to dry. Then away you go. Cheers, C. Thanks Crackaig. Who'd of thunk it. What a great solution. I'll give it a go. But, I'm still going to get me some decent necks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chuck McFarlane 0 Report post Posted September 27, 2015 Here's an attempt at a full body hackled wet fly I did up tonight. I didn't really have a pattern name I followed for this one. I just wanted to practice palmering, winging and getting a feel for the general style of this type of fly. I went with a pearl body with silver wire ribbing. I palmered back the furnace hackle and placed some softer longer spey in front before setting the wing. I went with a low narrow mallard slips tied in using the valley method. I wanted a streamlined look and some bright yellow marabou tail action. I will throw this one tomorrow and see how it looks in the water. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phg 0 Report post Posted September 27, 2015 You need soft, webby hen neck or hen back for wet fly hackles. Back in the day, you could get these anywhere, in any color for a reasonable price. Today, they are hard to find, and the color selection is limited. Chinese rooster is better, but still too stiff. Chinese saddle was widely used for streamers, but generally too big for wet flies. Also, since the avian flue scare, a few years ago, it has become close to impossible to get whole capes or saddles for China or India. The best source would be to find someone who raises egg laying chickens. Most commercial egg layers are white Leghorn, which can be dyed almost any color. They only keep the layers for a couple of years, and then sell them off. Years ago, it was easy to find a local farmer who kept a few dozen chickens, and would be happy to sell you one. We used Rhode Island Reds for brown, Plymouth Rock for grizzly, etc. Banty roosters gave you the best dry fly hackles (still very poor compared to today's genetics), but standard size chickens were fine for wet flies and streamers. How things have changed in the past 50 years.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crackaig 0 Report post Posted September 27, 2015 Looks good to me. Another tip I didn't mention before, to size the wing slips use a hook of the same kind but one size smaller as a gauge. If you put it in your hackle pliers, holding it by the eye it makes a ready gauge for measuring the slips. Cheers, C. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites