Classic Trout Wets and Winging

[Chuck McFarlane 0]

I'm not new to tying in general, but new to classic wets and fine feather wings. In addition to proportion, I'm especially having trouble with fibers such as grey mallard and bronze mallard. I've tried cutting matching slips both right and left but when I tie down, I end up with something that looks like a professor with a bad hair day! Ahhhh! My stiffer quill feathers seem to come out mostly okay.

 

 

Perhaps there is a tutorial or some advice to point me in the right direction. Cheers.

[Dave G. 0]

It may not be so much what you are doing but the mallard flank itself, some flanks the fibers don't want to stay together.

[flytire 0]

your professor isnt that bad.

 

it needs a few more fibers in the tail (or red goose feather fibers), better ribbing (5 equally spaced turns), maybe a thinner body (2 strands of floss), brown throat hackle and smaller head

 

 

practice practice practice

 

http://donbastianwetflies.com/

 

http://hatchesmagazine.com/blogs/Hatches/category/ray-bergman-collection/

 

 

 

for the wing

 

http://www.trout-salmon-fishing.com/mallard-silver-fly.htm

[Chuck McFarlane 0]

Flytire, your links are awesome. Truly impressive. The fly you show is exactly what I want to produce someday. These are little works of art. I agree practice, practice and more practice. I'm going to sift through your material and produce some more samples. I really appreciate the critique as well. Flytire is there a standard hook type and size I should be using to produce the correct proportions? My sample is tied on a TMC 3761 #12.

 

Thank you so much Dave G. I do agree I may have run into some uncooperative material for the wings. I've had better luck on some other patterns but nothing close to consistent as of yet.

[flytire 0]

the hook you are using is fine

 

i think its also important to always sort through that big bag of mallard flank feathers to find the best feathers and toss out all of the fluff

[Chuck McFarlane 0]

the hook you are using is fine

 

i think its also important to always sort through that big bag of mallard flank feathers to find the best feathers and toss out all of the fluff

For sure, I've also identified from the articles some key things after feather selection I was doing wrong. I tend to back wrap on to the wing after setting when I should only wrap forward toward the head. This is probably why I'm splaying the fibers kinda like the effect when deer or elk hair flares under thread tension. Yet another thing is to mainly select fibers from the upper sections of the feathers where the fibers tend to adhere better. I'll work on these areas first and see if I get better results.

[Galdrin 0]

Chuck, please keep posting you advancement here if you have some spare time. I'm new to fly tying and I'm also going for the classic looks and just as you I've encountered some trouble with getting the wings to keep their form.

[Chuck McFarlane 0]

Chuck, please keep posting you advancement here if you have some spare time. I'm new to fly tying and I'm also going for the classic looks and just as you I've encountered some trouble with getting the wings to keep their form.

Will do! Just got back from the fly shop with a few goodies. Done a lot of reading in the past couple days in my spare time on this topic of classic wets. Ready now to sit down and try to spin out a few.Please check out the links flytire put up on this thread, if not already done so, there is a lot of good information and a wealth of patterns to drool over.

[Crackaig 0]

It is only here on this forum that I have ever come across tying duck flank feathers, as wet fly wings, in matched pairs. The way I was taught, and see used everywhere else, is as either a rolled, or folded wing. Match pairs of slips being reserved for wings made from heavier feathers such as wing primary and secondary feathers. A rolled or folded wing of duck flank is much easier to mount on the hook when tying, and produces a more solid wing. My preference is for a folded wing.

 

Folding a Wing. A large single slip is cut from the feather. The left and right edges of the slip are folded almost to the middle. The gap between these edges being about twice the thickness of the feather. The slip is then folded in half. A folded wing is mounted on the fly with the open edge downward.

 

You are right in identifying the first turn of thread, that clinches the wing down, should not be tied over. Usually the wing is the last material to be tied in. Therefore, once the wing is secure all that remains to be done is to form the head of the fly. The classic proportion for the head is no larger than the eye of the hook. This makes sense of the thing my instructor said at the start of tying any wet fly. "Start the thread one eye width back from the eye, and run down the shank in neat touching turns." The starting point of the thread then, gives us the finishing point for tying in all materials other than the wing. The wing is then tied in in the space where the head will be formed, and the head built over it. The size of the head is also reduced by the fact that the first layer of thread isn't laid under it.

 

When it comes to mounting wet fly wings, the pinch and loop is not the best method. This goes for rolled, folded, and matched pairs. The better method is the "valley method". The prepared wing is held in a similar grip to the pinch and loop, but slightly behind the tie in point. A loose turn of thread is taken over the wing in front of the grip, and the bobbin left to hang. Do not relax your grip on the wing. With your other hand grasp the butts of the wing and move it up and down. As you do the weight of the bobbin will draw the wing down into place. Once it is drawn down take a second turn of thread immediately in front of the first. Then you can relax your grip.

 

One way wings are often upset is when the butts are trimmed off. If you use scissors carelessly you will move the fibres at the point where the wings are set. One way around this is by trimming the wing with a razor blade, another to use very fine sharp iris scissors to "nibble away" the excess material in a series of small cuts.

 

(Both the valley method and the methods for trimming the wing were shown me by Paul Little. You will not find anyone better at mounting wings!)

 

One last point. Fly tying is like computing. "Garbage in garbage out". Use the best materials if you want best results. For example there are only about six good bronze mallard feathers on a bird. The others are only really fit for jobs like the split wing on dabblers. A good quality bronze mallard feather is around 4 inches long. Be suspicious of anything smaller when choosing winging material.

 

Keep going, it gets easier the more you do it.

 

Cheers,

C

[Chuck McFarlane 0]

Here's another shot at slips. Nothing near what I want but a little better than the flared mess in my first attempts. Got the head more compact and managed to get 5 wraps of the ribbing material. After blowing up the picture, I noticed my rib spacing could use some work. Crackaig, I'll give the rolled wing and valley method a try. Wow! lots of great information. I'd like to get the wing to set lower and more uniform on the next go. Thanks so much for your information I'll look up Paul Little.

[flytire 0]

here is the "valley" method i think crack it describing

 

http://traditionalflies.com/index.php?wingingwetflies

 

After blowing up the picture, I noticed my rib spacing could use some work

 

chuck, use the following tutorial step by step when creating bodies like those of the professor. notice the tinsel work is done in 2 steps. the tag then the body. the 3rd wrap of tinsel is exactly in the middle of the body

 

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/oldflies/oldflies20090831.php

 

wing "slips" come from wing feathers as shown below. i dont think of folded mallard as "slips"

 

 

note the "slips" that are cut from the feather

 

 

read about mallard wings

 

http://donbastianwetflies.com/2011/10/04/bronze-mallard-wings/

 

http://donbastianwetflies.com/2012/03/11/bronze-mallard-wings-part-ii/

 

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/oldflies/part416.php

 

http://globalflyfisher.com/staff/petti/garage/woodduck/

 

scroll down to find folding the mallard wing in the following link

 

http://anglingireland.myfreeforum.org/archive/sooty-olive__o_t__t_73.html

[Chuck McFarlane 0]

This is my shot at the Valley method using slips. Needs tweaking but I got a lower wing set and more centered on the top of shank. Need to use more wing material though, still too sparse. This method holds promise for me. I like that I have a little more adjustment time as long as I don't let go. I left the tag out on this one.

 

Flytire, I'll read up on the finer points of tags, body and ribbing. I really really appreciate all the help from you and Crackaig. I never would have thought these simple looking gems would be so involved to tie. Heap of fun and even if they are not perfect they still look great in my box and I bet they'll fish!

[Crackaig 0]

I recognise those photos Flytier! They are from a "story" I did on Photobucket of slip wings on dry flies.

 

Cutting through the stem rather than cutting the slips off the stem is a great tip I picked up from Donald Downs many years ago. The attached stem helps support the fibres. They also give you something substantial to hold them with.

 

That is a great explanation of the valley method.Wish I had that when I was learning.

 

Chuck, I can certainly see the difference. The widest of duck flank feather wings use a cheat. The slip is wrapped around a slip of something more substantial like turkey tail. If kept short you will not notice it is there. That is, though, for much bigger flies than you are tying. Well you are getting there, keep trying and asking when you have a question. I may speak for Flytier as well, I share this because people shared it with me. Please pass it on.

 

Cheers,

C.

[Chuck McFarlane 0]

I recognise those photos Flytier! They are from a "story" I did on Photobucket of slip wings on dry flies.

 

Cutting through the stem rather than cutting the slips off the stem is a great tip I picked up from Donald Downs many years ago. The attached stem helps support the fibres. They also give you something substantial to hold them with.

 

That is a great explanation of the valley method.Wish I had that when I was learning.

 

Chuck, I can certainly see the difference. The widest of duck flank feather wings use a cheat. The slip is wrapped around a slip of something more substantial like turkey tail. If kept short you will not notice it is there. That is, though, for much bigger flies than you are tying. Well you are getting there, keep trying and asking when you have a question. I may speak for Flytier as well, I share this because people shared it with me. Please pass it on.

 

Cheers,

C.

Thanks so much for the tips! There's a lot going on when tying these little patterns every little tip helps. The valley method is great! I just finished a march brown male and I'm quite pleased with the results. I just had to try the tutorial with a pair of hen pheasant quills. I've always wanted to do the winged version as have tied and fished few march brown spiders. I'll keep working on proportions and portions of materials. Thanks again.

[Chuck McFarlane 0]

Here's a little gold ribbed hare's ear wet I tied based on the Ray Bergman collection tied by Don Bastian. I've had great success with this pattern in it's nymph version, so with the new found skills provided to me by flytire and crackaig I decided to give it a go in it's wet version. I'm getting more confident with the valley method and I got a nice low wing set and pleasing shape. A little too much tail fiber but no fly is perfect.