Nathan Needs Advice

[Gene L 0]

At the top of this page are instructions for tying the scud. If it's changed, it's: http://www.flytyingforum.com/pattern3987.html

[flytire 0]

i am assuming you are talking about a bait hook like the one below

 

 

just pinch down or file off the barbs on the hook shank for now and tie any fly you want on them

 

you certainly can tie the scud you mention in your last post

 

a strip of clear zip lock baggie is an excellent substitute for the scud back

 

spikey dubbing is great for the body

 

use your sewing thread for now but accept the fact that if you really want to tie flies, fly tying thread is really the way to go

 

heres a few scuds i tied in the 1980s using zip lock baggy material for the back

 

 

 

 

dont worry about curved hooks. they are not MANDATORY for tying scuds

 

note that the scuds above have a wire rib. if you don't have wire, thread or mono filament line are good substitutes

[Dave G. 0]

I don't have pictures of the scuds I used to tie. If you can use the hooks from Walmart is simply a matter of the scud sizes in your area. Ours, or the flies I tied that caught fish, are size 14, maybe a 12 would work as well. I also used plastic baggy for the backs and I used mono for the rib. I used a fairly course and spiked dubbing and just plucked hairs out for the legs. On some I palmered a hackle through and after wrapping the baggie and spiraling the rib I just plucked out the hackle fibers, but most had turned down anyway. Either one fished great on a sink tip line or even full sink line over weed beds. I caught trout with ease on them but found out that really small Hairs Ear Nymphs worked about as well and were universal to more of the waters I happen to fish in ( scuds being more in still water but small hairs ears fishable there or in rivers). But if scuds are numerous in your area they surely can be the " go to" fly. One pond I fish in now and then has scuds over the shallow weeds and midges out over about the 10ft water mark more or less.it's a heavilly stocked pond with rainbows and brown trout but the fish key right to those two insects in reasonably short time ( within two weeks for sure). Stocked fish are just dumb when they are first stocked lol !

 

I think the smallest hook I've seen at our local Walmart is maybe a size 10.

[Quacker 0]

You may want to check out the International Federation of Fly Fishers, www.fedflyfishers.org. Spend some time on the Internet checking out fly tying videos and fly tying materials. There are many good fly tying sources on the Internet check them out. I get most of my materials from feather-craft.com in St Louis because I live in the area. They have a great catalog and I'm sure they would be happy to provide some advise and send you a catalog. I've used several other shops for materials and supplies and have had no issues with anyone I've used.

 

I haven't found any feathers worth using from craft stores but there are other items such as beads, yarn and some wire as well as craft foam and craft hair/fur that at be useful. Don't waste your money on crap you can't use.

 

Invest in a good fly tying vise. You can get a quality vise without breaking the bank.

 

As someone else said, invest in a couple good fly tying books that has a focus on fundamentals. Since you're 3 hours from trout water I would also recommend starting with panfish flies. Google "blue gill fly tying" and check out some tying videos.

[crazy4oldcars 0]

I know the small, curved hooks you are talking about from walmart. They actually look like curved-shank scud hooks. The ones I bought are Eagle Claw and are gold colored. I think I found a couple of packs of size 10's.

Dull. Dull, dull, dull. I couldn't even catch fish on them drowning worms with the wife. They were too small for me and my fumbly fingers to get ahold of and sharpen. If you can figure out how to sharpen them, they would probably be OK.

The bait hooks and aberdeen hooks are OK for streamers, and are pretty much all I buy for that purpose anymore. 20 hooks for a buck 98 is hard to beat, and I can sharpen the size 8's in those.

For trout flies, 10's ,12's, and 14's, I would go online to buy the real deal. I prefer Mustad's hooks, but you will get as many opinions as you get responses. I have also used house brand hooks from GCO (site sponsor) and J Stockard. I prefer the latter. I found several untempered hooks in the GCO product.

Thread.

Most sewing thread is bonded thread. This means that the fibers are bonded together into a single entity. It makes a stronger thread for something that sees repeated stresses, like a button or a seam.

Most tying thread, whether waxed or not, is not bonded, and can be untwisted to lie flat on the hook. Look at a piece of twine. if you twist it one way, it tightens up into a harder cord. Twist it the other way and it unwinds into individual fibers. The individual fibers will lay flatter against the hookshank, since they can lie beside each other.

UTC, and Danville's, as well as others, are this type. UNI, I have been told, makes a bonded tying thread, but I've never bought any of their tying thread.

 

Hopefully, I have helped answer some of your questions. Don't be afraid to ask any others that come to mind. We're always glad to help.

 

Kirk B.

[NPurdy 0]

Flytire, those were the hooks, however, when I went back to Walmart they were not there anymore. I did run across an Eagle Claw Rotating LIghtwire panfish hook. It's S shaped with no barbs on the back of the hook shank. Similar to the one below. It is hard to see the S shape to the hook but its there. I followed a rather simple pattern of using Tan 70 thread on one of these hooks and put in just a small amount of Olive dubbing. The tail I think are two pheasant feather tips just to give the impression of it looking more like a bug. The scudback is a piece of plastic ziplock bag as you suggested. It was hard to tie this in, maybe because I have no experience with it. The ribs (if you can call them that) are just thread. Below is the end result. Any suggestions or criticism on this "Green Scud" would be appreciated.

[crazy4oldcars 0]

Something that may help you some. You don't have to use the entire hookshank to tie a fly. If it helps keep the proportions correct, tie the fly at the back of the hook and leave more hook sticking out at the eye. Tie a 3/4" long fly on a hook with a 1" long shank.

Here, this is what I mean:

 

Here I am showing the 2 hooks. The top one (Bigger) is a #6 Panfish hook from Walmart, the little one is a standard Mustad R50-94840 dry fly hook in size 10. (I didn't have a R70-3609 wetfly hook.) You can see I marked the long hook at the barb and at the extent I wanted to tie on it.

 

Here is a generic nymph tied on the big hook, with the little hook clamped to it for comparison.

Normal body proportions are 2/3 Abdomen, 1/3 Thorax/wingcase and head.

Usual practice, when tying on a "proper" sized hook it to tie from the barb or start of the bend, up to within 1 eye width of the eye. That gives you the length to divide into thirds.

 

Here is the finished fly without the other hook to get in the way.

My thorax is the proper length, but a little skinny for my tastes. I prefer more taper and for the body to be thicker at the thorax.

The legs are too long. At most, and that's pushing it, they should extend to the middle of the thorax.

The head is ugly, too. I should have pushed the length of the thorax and the length of the Abdomen one more turn forward and made both of them longer. As it is, the lengths are more suited to a size 12 hook, lol. As it is, it will still catch fish.

 

My opinion, from what I've read and for what it is worth, is that fish don't "see" the hook. Period. They don't see "negative triggers". They are looking to match an image that says "food". What you are offering either looks like food (EAT IT) or it is ignored. Nothing on a fly, bright colors, flash, bells, rattles, whistles, etc. scares the fish away from the fly. If a fish follows your fly and doesn't eat it, it looked ALMOST like food. Close enough to look closer at, but not enough "Positive triggers" to say food.

The only thing that scares a fish is something that can eat it. And everything that can eat it is bigger than it is, and has a distinct shape. People, bigger fish, birds and things like that.

 

Damn. I didn't mean to ramble on like that. Kinda windy, ain't I, lol.

I hope all of this gives y'all something to consider, and I am willing to entertain contrary opinions.

 

Kirk B.

 

EDIT: Had to correct the attachments.

[vicente 0]

I personally love fly fishing for Bass and would take a day of decent bad fishing on a fly rod over a decent day of terror fishing. I grew up trout fishing in the Sierras and honestly they are some of these easiest fish to catch out there. Typically you are going to catch bigger bass you can fun a ton of different patterns and have more fun trying them also they will be bigger which will make it easier to learn.

You mentioned not feeling comfortable casting for bass where you are at with a fly rod do to skill, practice is how you get better, and prescribing on the lake with the chance of catching a fish with the crazy fly you just tied is a lot more fun then throwing flys in your yard.

[vicente 0]

Also if you're tying them individual flys are cheap so don't worry about losing them.

[FlaFly 0]

You guys know the OP hasn't logged on for five months now.

[vicente 0]

Yea saw that right after I posted it. Oh well