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ran1019

Vise question

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Greetings Everyone!

I started tying this past June, after I retired from our public school system here in Bozeman.

I am struggling with the small size of just about everything in this new world!

 

The question I have is whether a full rotating vise will help me as a beginner. I have a fixed vise that my father bought 50 years ago and it seems to be working. In all of the videos I have watched, I only see rotating vises. Am I handicapping myself by trying to begin with a fixed vise?

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

Randy

 

post-57491-0-24237100-1445744460_thumb.jpost-57491-0-45676200-1445744461_thumb.j

A couple of my first attempts. Not sure they are all that visible in this post. (I am new to this too!)

Thanks for any advice you might offer this 62 year old newbie!

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Welcome to the site, Ran.

I do not tie flies for show, but for fishing. So, my flies are not up to the quality of display others on this site reach.

For me, a fixed vice works just fine. I do like one that can be rotated upside down to see other sides of the fly. I recently bought a vise with the full rotational feature, but I don't use it. I still only use it if I need to see the opposite or bottom side of the fly.

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"Am I handicapping myself by trying to begin with a fixed vise?"

 

No. Particularly if you're just starting out.

 

eric

fresno, ca.

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Not really, it's just a different technique used with the two different styles of vice. If you do a lot of candy cane ribbing on larger streamers ( or other steps that travel a long ways on long hooks) the rotating feature is nice to have but you certainly can learn ways around that and other rotating techniques used. Watch a lot of videos is my suggestion and see how some of the better tyers handle materials. Watch the Davie McPhail series ( he rarely uses rotation in the tying sequence), then watch Norm in the Norvise series ( who almost always uses his super smooth and fast rotating vise techniques). You can pick up tips for comparison that way. There are other good videos as well but those stand out in the two classifications you bring up.

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welcome to the site:)

 

your vice has one simple job to do and that is hold a hook securely. this hobby is is chock full of shiny, fancy things that people think will help them tie better. the only thing that can improve tying skills is hands on time at the vice. i would tie away on the functional vice that you are using now, and use the money saved for material.

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I think I need to chime in here... this issue has gone on over and over for eons.... like chicken/egg which came first.

 

There are three kinds of vises: one is fixed, the second is able to be rotated manually to turn the fly upside down without having to ungrip the hook. Three is fully rotational, so you can spin the thread onto the hook instead of winding it around the hook. At least as a beginner you probably won't need the latter, in fact depending on what kinds of flies you tie and whether you are tying them to sell, you may never need it. The fully rotational vise simply allows the tyer to make flies much quicker. Since I'm not in any particular hurry to finish, I don't realize any benefit from this kind of vise. If I tie flies because I enjoy doing it, why should I try to get it over with so fast?

 

I can almost guarantee though that before long, you're going to get tired of unlatching the hook to turn it over in the vise, so my advise as always is to get one that allows you to turn it over. There are some reasonably priced beginner level vises (actually I still use mine after several years) at Bass Pro Shop and Cabelas, probably other places too.

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Regardless of which type of vise you use, it has always been the skills of the fly tyer that ties the fly not the vise!

 

There are still a large number of excellent fly tyers that dont need/use all of the bells and whistles of rotary vises because of their talent

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The masters of our art never tied on rotary vises and they did just fine. I learned I and many of my friends have or had stationary vises to tie learn in the beginning. Just get the one that turns so you can see all of the way around the fly your are tying, that would be of help to you.

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If you really need to see the other side of the fly just rotate the stem of your vise

 

How bad did you muck up the other side anyway?

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A rotary vise starting off my not help, but it won't hurt. If it's a good vise, that is. Like a lot of people I started off on a Thompson and developed fixed-vise habits I can't seem to break. Although I have a rotary I don't take full advantage of its capability.

 

I suspect if you start off on a rotary and get used to using it, you'll find its advantages helpful. However, going back to your original post, you say the videos show tyers using rotary vises. However, most of the videos I watch, they don't actually USE the rotary vise but tie on it like a fixed vise.

 

I've got two HMH "traditional" vises, one full rotary, and a Regal, which rotates but is not a true rotary. I love them all. Actually the HMH vises will rotate as well to allow you to look at all aspects of your fly, but not in-line, just to be clear.

 

Whatever type of vise you ultimately decide on, get a good one. A $30 vise will wear out, let hooks slip, and generally not be worth the money...at least to me.

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Flytire.... not the other side.... the underside. My first vise was impossible to rotate the jaws without actually opening them (and having the hook fall out). I often need to do something... glue, trim, color, etc., on the underside of the fly.

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My vise would be best described as a rotating vise more so than a rotary, but as long as I run the head parallel to the work table and place the hook in properly it will serve to do full rotary function for me. It was not an expensive vise, I think I paid $35-40 for it maybe 25 -30 years ago and the jaws have held up fine. It gets the job done, maybe not the smoothest finish or smoothest rotating feature for sure but it gets the job done. One day I will splurge on a nicer vise but thus far have resisted, even though I've tried many models out over the years and was impressed with the silky smooth function.. Simply because this one gets the job done and has not worn out as yet.. It replaced a perfectly functional fixed vice that my adult step son still uses to this day ( that is a Thompson, looks like the A but was chrome and I believe it is no longer made, still going strong and he ties mostly buggers and streamers, a few EHC , has no desire for rotary at all !).

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Greetings Everyone!

I started tying this past June, after I retired from our public school system here in Bozeman.

 

I am struggling with the small size of just about everything in this new world!

 

The question I have is whether a full rotating vise will help me as a beginner. I have a fixed vise that my father bought 50 years ago and it seems to be working. In all of the videos I have watched, I only see rotating vises. Am I handicapping myself by trying to begin with a fixed vise?

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

Randy

 

 

 

My question is does the vise you have allow you adequate exposure to the small flies you need to tie? My major concern is NOT whether the vise is fixed or rotating, but how it functions when tying small flies.

 

If the vise is satisfactory for small flies then the next question how serious are you about fly tying? I use a Renzetti Master vise but I went from Thompson A ---> Regal ----> HMH Standard ---> Renzetti Master. Every step was a step up. Had I known what I know now, I would have skipped a couple of vises.

 

No one knows the future BUT if you are likely to be tying flies for the rest of your life, it is probably unlikely that you will stay with the vise you have now. You may, but probably not. If you think you are going to eventually tie on a true rotary, you would be better served to do that now.

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The art of tying artificial flies is about 2000 years old, for the first 1800 years, these flies were all tied "in hand," there were no vises of any kind. The first vises came into use in the mid 1800's, and the rotary vises only started to become available in the last 45 or 50 years. Each step was an improvement, but any vise is still just a tool, that you need to learn to use.

 

There were no "rotary" vises in common usage when I started tying, and I didn't get one until I had been tying for more than 10 years. Yes there are things that either type of rotary vise will make easier, but you don't really need one at this point.

 

As long as your present vise still works, learn the basic techniques, and patterns. Some day in the future when you are sure you have the need, then you will know enough to choose a rotary vise that will best suit your needs.

 

\

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