large fly guy trying my hand at nymphs need critique!

[josephcsylvia 0]

SilverCreek I tried like heck to keep the hair from flaring to much didn't work I will try bending the hook shank. Picture on on the post before this one.

[SilverCreek 0]

SilverCreek I tried like heck to keep the hair from flaring to much didn't work I will try bending the hook shank. Picture on on the post before this one.

 

Like I said, you have the wrong hair.

 

Instead of grabbing a random piece of hair to use, I have my hair sorted and marked with a sharpie as to the type and size of flies a piece of hair will tie.

 

In my opinion deer/elk/moose/caribou etc hair is like hackle. I NEVER buy a piece that I have not personally examined and sorted. I describe how I do this in the post that I refer you to below.

http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=69829

 

What determines how a hair will flare? Wall thickness and how hollow the hair is. The thicker the wall and the smaller the center cavities, the less the hair will flare. Elk hair on average has thicker walls and flares less than deer hair so that is why the fly is called an elk hair caddis. Thicker walled hair is also more durable as an additional benefit. I believe those two reasons are why Al Troth specifed elk hair for this pattern. Unforunately, most "elk" hair caddises are now tied with deer hair.

Deer and elk hair have dark solid tips. Quality hair has short dark tips that are the same length. If you buy hair with long and variable length tips, when you tie the hair in, the color change sill not line up and although the tips will be lined up, the wing will actually look jagged because of the color change.

So for both elk hair caddis and comparaduns you want short tips with thick walled minimal flaring hair for EHC and flaring hair for comparaduns.

Take the hair out of the package, hold the tips against a white business card and examine the tip length. Then take some hair and pinch it with your thumbnail against a finger tip to see how it flairs.

Good EHC hair:

Bad EHC hair:

Photos above from this article by Charlie Craven on selecting hair:

http://midcurrent.com/flies/fly-tying-hair-selection/

[kennebec12 0]

Switching to 70 denier will definitely help with smaller flies, you might snap the thread a few times at first but you'll get used to it and with switching back and forth. Trimming the top of the hackle can help get your wing profile down, but you have to be careful because the hackle doesn't usually come off the shank perpendicular to it but at a tangent, which means it is easily trimmed to cause the fly to land on its side.

 

There are ways to overcome the flair though, I prefer to use the more hollow hair for flotation reasons. When you tie on the hair before trimming the butts and without releasing the tips wrap the thread back tightly leaving a space before the tie down point and then unwrap it, this will create kinks in the hair that keep it tight to the hook shank. This can also be done by pushing your thumbnail down and towards the eye, as you might see Davie McPhail do in some of his videos. Applying a small dot of head cement and holding the hair down after it is kinked will hold it there when the fly gets wet (the hair will swell and flair back out when wet).

 

You can also do a tied down caddis or any of the feather wing patterns like a king's river caddis. As far as dry flies go, caddis patterns are my most fished, considering we have 300+ species of caddisflies (tricoptera) in Maine with reliable hatches from mid-May through early November. The only time I've noticed any effect of wing profile is in still water, where I would typically fish a kings river caddis or the like over an EHC.

[josephcsylvia 0]

Thank you guys, today I tied a very nice ray charles scud on a #24 hook it took me about 20 min I keeps unwrapping and re wrapping the ostrich. I finally got it perfect.

 

Going to take a photo I notice a tiny stray hair in the eye sticking out, since I wad taking a picture of this one that was unacceptable. I decided to try a trick I use with larger flies, take a lighter and get close and singe the hair out

 

Poof literally! It went up in a flash I was left with wire and some thread wraps lmao. I could only laugh.

[flytire 0]

 

a #24 ray charles?

[mikechell 0]

I see it, Flytire ... right next to the #32 PT Nymph, right?

[flytire 0]

yup!

 

but which side is it on?

[josephcsylvia 0]

Lol wasn't going to fish it, just figured if I tie on that a #14 will be a breeze. Its like getting in the 90 mph batting cage that way when game day comes that 13 year old girl doesnt seen to be pitching at you that fast lol

 

In all honesty hooks that size dont even look like you can get a tippet through the eye

[PJ2 0]

Lol wasn't going to fish it, just figured if I tie on that a #14 will be a breeze. Its like getting in the 90 mph batting cage that way when game day comes that 13 year old girl doesnt seen to be pitching at you that fast lol

 

In all honesty hooks that size dont even look like you can get a tippet through the eye

Poof it was gone... only i would have probably thrown my bobbin...lol

and I think i will need special glasses to get tippet through some of these hooks.

[josephcsylvia 0]

I couldn't believe the whole fly went up in like half a second.

[Dave G. 0]

Lol wasn't going to fish it, just figured if I tie on that a #14 will be a breeze. Its like getting in the 90 mph batting cage that way when game day comes that 13 year old girl doesnt seen to be pitching at you that fast lol

 

In all honesty hooks that size dont even look like you can get a tippet through the eye

I fished in a pond quite some time ago now and brought my usual #20 midges tied to a 6x tippet. Couldn't buy a fish in that place never mind catch one. So I really started looking at what they were rising on, mine were like Godzilla next to what was coming off but the same color and probably the right pattern. I went home and tied 24's because that was the smallest hook I had. I tied them up a little short on the 24 hooks and went back the next morning. Tied onto the same 6x tippet and I now got some lookers but no takers. I added on three feet of 7x tippet and bam, caught three fish. the real midges probably were about size 28- 32 but I just won't go there.

 

There is another hatch in another local pond that I wont fish at all when that happens. They are these little puff balls, blue looking body and the puff of wing looks to be white. No clue what these are . The water is just dotted with these things in the morning if you go out in a canoe or boat. The fish are all over them and they must be size 40 or even less. Nope, not me that's too much. plus the same place in the evening has midge hatches of about size 18 and later in the season it has Hex hatches. Hex hatches are something else, every fish in the pond come up for them, could be bass, trout, perch what ever.

[josephcsylvia 0]

Dave, I hear you. Someone on here I cant remember who was tying #32 I felt like ray charles trying to tie that #24 lol right now I live in Florida so the smallest id fish is probably a #14 dry and that's when these retention pond fish are just feeding on skaters and small flies.

[Dave G. 0]

Dave, I hear you. Someone on here I cant remember who was tying #32 I felt like ray charles trying to tie that #24 lol right now I live in Florida so the smallest id fish is probably a #14 dry and that's when these retention pond fish are just feeding on skaters and small flies.

Those small hooks are right up there with 5/64 and smaller beads. But the beads at least are an ingredient on the hook, not the hook !! Speaking of tweezers, I use them on those beads.

 

I don't know how you are tying these things on 140 denier. 70 can seem too big at times. I use 70 and both 6/0 and 8/0 thread up to about #6 hooks.. i use 140 on my bass bugs sometimes. I've never broken Uni 8/0 nor UTC 70 denier. I have frayed and popped Danville 6/0 enough times though. Yet somehow I often gravitate to that Danville in black for my midge bodies, just have to back off the tension on the spool.

[josephcsylvia 0]

The 140 seems good to me, its a flat thread so that helps. I could probably go to 6/0 and be better around the eye. I havnt tried anything like parachutes or anything yet with it.

 

I like the challenge of tying smaller flies but I really like tying my satlies!

[Poopdeck 0]

I'm pretty sure trout, unlike us humans, are totally and completely unaware of just how long a mayfly's legs, abdomen, and tail are. Very good critiques but that fly will catch fish just as well as a perfect one. I went from saltwater teaser and bucktail tying to trout flies. I did and sometimes still tend to put to much material on. I found that close is not only good for horseshoes and hand grenades but also flies. Enjoy your small fly tying