Could the Clouser be the most versatile streamer ever made?

[Dave G. 0]

 

 

I don't think it would be a stretch to say that the Clouser could also imitate a shrimp or crayfish.

Nope not shrimp, but all you do is divide the tail and it will do crayfish fine. In fact just weight it to hit bottom tied in good crayfish colors, close enough, don't even divide the tail.. Just trying to give the impression of the creatures not an exact anything, the woolly bugger was never about an exact anything except to be a woolly bugger. But it can pass in many situations. Certainly more than a minnow imitation can.

Shrimp for sure!!! Take a look at the "gotcha" fly. It's pretty darn close to a clouser in style, but is a shrimp imitation. I know many people that tie slight variations of clouser's to fish bonefish. Pretty much all Crazy Charlie variants are sorta closely resembling a clouser.

 

Listen to me: In your world the Clouser can be what ever you want it to be . In my world, it's a lousy bait fish pattern that some fish can, for what ever reason, like and certainly some men do. I personally like them in my waste basket. Or better yet, never tied. J/K and over stated ( maybe) !

[McFlyLures 0]

 

 

Well you asked about the most versatile fly ever made. The Clouser to me would not be it because it basically only imitates minnows. It might be able to be tied to imitate minnows in fresh and salt water and streams and rivers etc but it still only imitates minnows, period. A Woolly Bugger though can imitate a minnow in all the same situations. In the right colors it can imitate crayfish, Stonefly nymphs, with a long tail a leech. And with a shorter tail and correct colors and size it will pass in a Hex hatch. Far more versatile than a Clouser ever thought of being , since it can pass in any of those varying conditions, while the Clouser "imitates minnows".

Besides that, I've never been attracted to the Clouser even though many fish are and certainly a share load of fishermen are. I think I've tied two Clousers in my life ( orange and white, chartreuse and white), both of which caught fish but the chartreuse the stronger performer around here, I couldn't stand looking at them and threw them out. Call me nuts !!

Ok I'll call you nuts... Haha. J/K.

 

The clouser can imitate crayfish and shrimp. I think they are a nice looking fly, but we each hold our own ideas and apparently you can't stand the site of them. Haha. Yes the WB is possibly more versatile in fresh water. It can imitate more forage opportunities for fish. Bugs, baitfish, and crustations. However one could argue that it's limited to fresh water only, And possibly a limited saltwater use. The clouser however can catch just about every species of sport fish. I don't know too many people fishing albacore with a WB, but the clouser is quite effective with albies on the fly. Maybe the correct question was not about its versatility, but its effectiveness for a greater number of fish, and waters?

 

There is no question that a lot of fishermen are attracted to the Clouser. They put great faith in them and they like the looks of them. I'm not one though, I just plain don't like them. The Thunder Creek tie is another I don't care for and actually have never tied that pattern at all. But some guys love them.

 

Thats the beauty of fly fishing. We each have what we like, and each have our own opinions. So do the fish. They can be pretty picky and selective as well. If you knew what a fish would eat every time, or every fisherman thought the same thing, there would not be too many fly patterns, or techniques in fishing. The uniqueness of each individual is what makes this world great!

[skeet3t 0]

Interesting thread here. I'm partial to the WB here in east TN. Imitates: leech, minnow, shad. One thing depends on what colors hackle and marabou is used. On my home river, the Hiwassee, there is a shad kill during the cold months. Trout look like footballs from feasting on them. Then, my go-to WB is white with a bit of crystal flash and a touch of red for gills; tied on a 6 or 8 hook. Other times, black or olive produce good.

Many, many years ago, Outdoor Life ran an article about the twelve best flies for fishing in the US. The black WB was one. Others that I recall were the Adams, muddler minnow, pheasant tail. I have searched for the article and haven't had any luck.

[McFlyLures 0]

 

 

 

I don't think it would be a stretch to say that the Clouser could also imitate a shrimp or crayfish.

Nope not shrimp, but all you do is divide the tail and it will do crayfish fine. In fact just weight it to hit bottom tied in good crayfish colors, close enough, don't even divide the tail.. Just trying to give the impression of the creatures not an exact anything, the woolly bugger was never about an exact anything except to be a woolly bugger. But it can pass in many situations. Certainly more than a minnow imitation can.

Shrimp for sure!!! Take a look at the "gotcha" fly. It's pretty darn close to a clouser in style, but is a shrimp imitation. I know many people that tie slight variations of clouser's to fish bonefish. Pretty much all Crazy Charlie variants are sorta closely resembling a clouser.

 

Listen to me: In your world the Clouser can be what ever you want it to be . In my world, it's a lousy bait fish pattern that some fish can, for what ever reason, like and certainly some men do. I personally like them in my waste basket. Or better yet, never tied. J/K and over stated !

 

LOL Ok well like I said, to each his own. And honestly I am glad we are all different. I am glad fish are all different. I am really glad that there isn't one fly that catches them all also. You are entitled to your opinion and I am grateful that you have one. Honestly, I am grateful that its different than mine. Makes fishing more interesting, and for sure this conversation more interesting. HAHA

 

One thing I have noticed also about this site is that once a topic gets sorta controversial, more people view. HAHA When more people view the topic, more people see my video's. My rating gets better on youtube which is what I intend anyway by posting on here. I appreciate your opinions and differing views.

[McFlyLures 0]

Interesting thread here. I'm partial to the WB here in east TN. Imitates: leech, minnow, shad. One thing depends on what colors hackle and marabou is used. On my home river, the Hiwassee, there is a shad kill during the cold months. Trout look like footballs from feasting on them. Then, my go-to WB is white with a bit of crystal flash and a touch of red for gills; tied on a 6 or 8 hook. Other times, black or olive produce good.

Many, many years ago, Outdoor Life ran an article about the twelve best flies for fishing in the US. The black WB was one. Others that I recall were the Adams, muddler minnow, pheasant tail. I have searched for the article and haven't had any luck.

Again, you are speaking freshwater only. Thats the thing. If you talk to a saltwater fisherman, they would say that the clouser is more versatile. If you speak to a freshwater fisherman, they would say the WB is. I think thats the difference. Even though the clouser was originated to fish bass, it soon became a saltwater staple. The WB ended up staying mostly freshwater. I mean there are some applications it could work in salt, but not too many.

 

I do fish the WB a lot though, don't get me wrong. I use it quite a bit in my local lakes even fishing bass. Just like you said with shad kill, its amazing how many fish you will catch in a few short hours with the WB. I am not knocking it at all. I am only stating that the clouser can catch more fish species than the WB, thats all. Like I said before, not too many Tuna eat WB's. You won't catch a tarpon, or shark fisherman with a WB in their box either.

[josephcsylvia 0]

Ive never fished for tarpon with a clouser, moves too fast. Not that it cant work you just have a better chance if you can keep the fly in there face longer, I would take a complex twist bugger with or without a cone over a clouser any day. Id say wb and clouser are neck and neck

[johnnyquahog 0]

This topic came up on another popular forum a couple days ago so it is fresh in my mind. Someone mentioned that Gartside said of the clouser 'they're great for beginners'. Sounds like something Jack would of said. Someone also mentioned that they are the custom rod builder's best friend. I believe it. I've caught my share of stripers on the clouser and am always torn between the fact that they are so darn effective yet I don't find them all that much fun to fish so I don't fish them as much as I used to. While fly fishers should always wear eye glasses, it is imperative to wear them while fishing a clouser. If you are going to tie them then watch Bob's video and get it right.

[Dave G. 0]

Ive never fished for tarpon with a clouser, moves too fast. Not that it cant work you just have a better chance if you can keep the fly in there face longer, I would take a complex twist bugger with or without a cone over a clouser any day. Id say wb and clouser are neck and neck

Cone heads I can get into, I think in part because the front of the body will at least be equal in density and bulk up enough to meet up with the cones diameter and yet still stream awesome. In fact you could effectively even have a relatively hollow hair body with a cone. And cone head woolly's are good too. I see no reason that a well tied woolly bugger won't work in salt, 0 reason. The fact that people don't do it is not proof that it won't work. And if fast streaming is the goal, then the cone is the trick not the eyes, I agree with that.

 

I don't do that kind of fishing myself though. It's stripers a blues here, both take Bunker and herring. Synthetic baitfish are better for those imitations than a Clouser without doubt. And I don't know how you guys fish for stripers but suspended works awesome, even dead drift with a twitch in any current that is around. Moving into estuaries it then turns over to sand eels here. Again a clouser will work but an actual sand eel pattern is deadly for both stripers and for sea run trout fished on an intermediate sink line. Additionally we have a big canal here, loaded with stripers at times of the year, especially late spring and then again in the fall. And for what ever reason we get a run in Aug. For that you are really best off with a popper that will give you a good 200 ft cast and then off the back of the popper put a stinger fly. I use 1/0 or 2/0 Gamakatsu circle hook, some sparkle and a strip of olive or chartreuse bunny strip tied off with orange mono. It just dead tethers behind the popper. Stripers nail it. I watch these guy popper fishing and splashing and making all this commotion on the water for very few if any fish in that condition. No, just drift that thing and twitch it now and then with that stinger fly, because the canal is loaded with smaller offerings that time of year and fish key on them engulfing bunches of them . A Clouser would be lousy, totally wrong action. that Gamakatsu has enough weight to keep the fly under but trailing the popper, the fish inhale it from below. when you see the swirl under the popper just wait a second or two and set the hook.

[McFlyLures 0]

Ive never fished for tarpon with a clouser, moves too fast. Not that it cant work you just have a better chance if you can keep the fly in there face longer, I would take a complex twist bugger with or without a cone over a clouser any day. Id say wb and clouser are neck and neck

I actually haven't fished tarpon with a clouser either. I am just saying the WB is definitely not a saltwater fly. Can be used, but most applications it doesn't work for salt water. Clouser can work for almost all saltwater fishing. If you need it to slow down, use a bead chain eye rather than a heavy dumbbell, and fish it slower. It won't sink as fast, and will catch more "finicky" fish.

 

I am not suggesting that you should load your fly box with clousers to go fish tarpon... I am just saying you will more likely find a clouser minnow in a tarpon fisherman's fly box than a WB. Thats all. Same thing with shark, tuna, barracuda, redfish, seatrout, striper, bonefish, exc... More likely gonna find them fishing clousers than WB. Thats all I mean.

[McFlyLures 0]

 

Ive never fished for tarpon with a clouser, moves too fast. Not that it cant work you just have a better chance if you can keep the fly in there face longer, I would take a complex twist bugger with or without a cone over a clouser any day. Id say wb and clouser are neck and neck

Cone heads I can get into, I think in part because the front of the body will at least be equal in density and bulk up enough to meet up with the cones diameter and yet still stream awesome. In fact you could effectively even have a relatively hollow hair body with a cone. And cone head woolly's are good too. I see no reason that a well tied woolly bugger won't work in salt, 0 reason. The fact that people don't do it is not proof that it won't work. And if fast streaming is the goal, then the cone is the trick not the eyes, I agree with that.

 

I don't do that kind of fishing myself though. It's stripers a blues here, both take Bunker and herring. Synthetic baitfish are better for those imitations than a Clouser without doubt. And I don't know how you guys fish for stripers but suspended works awesome, even dead drift with a twitch in any current that is around. Moving into estuaries it then turns over to sand eels here. Again a clouser will work but an actual sand eel pattern is deadly for both stripers and for sea run trout fished on an intermediate sink line. Additionally we have a big canal here, loaded with stripers at times of the year, especially late spring and then again in the fall. And for what ever reason we get a run in Aug. For that you are really best off with a popper that will give you a good 200 ft cast and then off the back of the popper put a stinger fly. I use 1/0 or 2/0 Gamakatsu circle hook, some sparkle and a strip of olive or chartreuse bunny strip tied off with orange mono. It just dead tethers behind the popper. Stripers nail it. I watch these guy popper fishing and splashing and making all this commotion on the water for very few if any fish in that condition. No, just drift that thing and twitch it now and then with that stinger fly, because the canal is loaded with smaller offerings that time of year and fish key on them engulfing bunches of them . A Clouser would be lousy, totally wrong action. that Gamakatsu has enough weight to keep the fly under but trailing the popper, the fish inhale it from below. when you see the swirl under the popper just wait a second or two and set the hook.

 

Sure, the fact that no one uses WB for saltwater applications doesn't prove that it won't work. I get that. That was not what I was saying though.

 

Yeah, it all depends on what the fish are feeding on. Here in northern CA, the baitfish are a bit more slender. Also the striper tend to like fast moving baits, with lots of flash (at least here in CA). You strip as fast as you can, and you will get a bite. Unless they are suspended deep, then you need to slow down a bit (but that doesn't mean clouser won't work). Striper also love poppers here as well. Its really interesting to see how different people fish the same species. Especially when from different locations. Its all about what type of bait that fish is going after, and also what the environment is like. I often fish stripers in the local brackish water river (napa river) because its close to my house. But how I fish for them there, rather than on the beach in the surf is different. Also how I fish them in a lake is different as well.

 

Where do you live? Sounds like its pretty good fishing there. Yeah I love the synthetic baitfish imitations as well. I tie a variation of the EP Peanut Butter that does pretty well. I also tie it in a "sexy shad" color for black bass.

[Adam Saarinen 0]

The magnus would have to be the saltwater wooly bugger!?!

[McFlyLures 0]

The magnus would have to be the saltwater wooly bugger!?!

You know what, you are right... HAHA And guess what! This uses a bead chain eye for weight rather than a cone head! Ok well just cause its another name, doesn't mean its not the same thing. Pretty much a saltwater (and weighted) WB which means possibly I stand corrected. WB could be more versatile. However I still don't think too many big game fisherman have a magnus in their boxes. Or am I wrong?

[Adam Saarinen 0]

I've never made them with beadchain eye's, always small dumb bell eye's, but i don't see why someone couldn't go big with it for the salt, just not overkill, use large feathers & double amount of tail!

[josephcsylvia 0]

I do use a woolly for snook in all white and it works great, I use schlappen as the hackle, look ar the sea deucer a very good saltwater fly and similar to a wb

[McFlyLures 0]

I do use a woolly for snook in all white and it works great, I use schlappen as the hackle, look ar the sea deucer a very good saltwater fly and similar to a wb

Yeah I actually have a seaducer tying video... I use it a lot. However its slightly different... But close, I know what you mean. Did you know that the seaducer was originally created to fish black bass in freshwater. The traditional red/white color. Now its tied quite often in a tan/brown color to mimic shrimp for redfish and seatrout.

 

I can see using a WB for snook.. Also for seatrout and redfish, and other inshore fish. But you have to admit, there are other flies that would be much better?

 

But you all are right, the WB is very versatile. I would say both the clouser and WB are probably tied for popularity and versatility.