Future of Fly Tying

[JSzymczyk 0]

anyone who gets into ANY hobby thinking they will not spend significant resources is delusional. Any hobby which uses consumable materials of any kind will always be expensive in some way, shape, or form. Expensive in money, expensive in time, expensive in effort, and usually some ratio of the three.

 

If you like to fly fish and tie flies, you will fly fish and tie flies. If the cost / benefit ratio becomes untenable, you will stop. I've been doing this since I was a young kid, as one of my primary hobbies. It's more or less just something I DO, like breath or drink water. I can't imagine a life without fishing. When I lived in the desert for several years, hunting eclipsed fishing as a priority but I still thought about it almost all the time. I tanned coyote and fox and badger skins, knowing that before long I'd be wanting to tie flies with it.

 

Yes over a lifetime I've collected more materials than I will ever use in the remainder of my life. I could probably, for real, improvise substitutions from my materials stash to tie all the flies for all the things I'll likely ever fish for again. I'm not an old fossil, I have a lot of years left if WORK and wife don't kill me.

 

Either you want to tie flies and you will tie flies, or you don't have enough interest to be bothered.

[Jokey 0]

I can say for a fact that the majority of these increases in price are not from corporate greed. It just doesn't happen that way for regular retail. As someone who is constantly buying and searching out commodities such as natural materials for tying I can say that anyone who tried to get more than the standard 45pts of margin on anything they are selling, either to a distributor or direct to a retailer, will not last long in business. That's what you aim for....quite often you have to settle for far less than standard margins. Items are constantly comp shopped to see what others are selling for and no one wants to be seen as "gouging" anyone. That's a good way to lose your business. No manufacturer of fly tying materials can afford to have a large customer say "screw you, others are cheaper than you"....word gets around and you'd be on the pogey line in no time.

 

Demand does play into it for some things, genetics for example, but for the most part the biggest factor is going to be market supply for natural materials. There are just too many things in play.

Weather, disease, government regulation and lack of suppliers are by far the biggest things to consider.

 

For example....a couple years ago the cost of rabbit skins went up....wayyyyy up. We saw price increases of 25-30% twice in one year. I wasn't able to get firm answers on everything as to why but from a few different sources I heard that most of the rabbit farming was being done in spain and some kind of disease took out a massive amount of the animals which drastically limited the supply. I had other companies scrambling to find rabbit skins because there are so few producers of them and hardly any of those that can handle high volumes. Stuff like that drives price through the roof.

 

A company also cant just raise it's prices to compensate for all those increases either. You try and tell a huge customer that due to sources beyond your control you are giving them a mid season price increase on a pile of stuff and they'll tell you to hit the road. So a company raises what it can and still stay competitive and hope the consumer demand is still there.

 

Is there some greed in fly tying....I'm sure there is. But if you think anyone out there is getting filthy rich selling fly tying materials then you are very mistaken.

 

J

[SilverCreek 0]

In the news since my last post. Foxconn of China replaced 60,000 workers out of 110,000 at just one of thier factories with robots. So robots replace over half their factory workforce at just one location.

If robots can replace workers being paid Chinese wages, what do you think will happen at the $15/hr minimum wage?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/columnists/ct-rosenthal-robots-jobs-manufacturing-0527-biz-20160526-column.html

”The South China Morning Post just a few days ago reported that Foxconn Technology, a supplier for Apple and Samsung, has replaced as many as 60,000 workers with robots, and that's just in one of its factories.

"It has tasted success in reduction of labor costs," Xu Yulian, a government spokesperson for the Kunshan region in China's Jiangsu province, told the paper. "More companies are likely to follow suit."

In fact, according to the Post, a government survey in Kunshan found 600 major companies just in that area have similar plans.”

http://www.technobuffalo.com/2016/05/25/robot-overlords-may-build-your-new-iphone/

”Foxconn is cutting its headcount as it moves to replace human workers with our new robot overlords, the South China Morning Post reported on Wednesday.

The company has, according to local government officials speaking with the South China Morning Post, cut its number of employees from 110,000 to 50,000 in an effort to boost its reliance on robotic manufacturing, which is often cheaper and more efficient than humans doing the same job.”

Meanwhile in the USA:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/05/26/mcdonalds-ex-ceo-says-15-minimum-wage-would-lead-to-robots-and-automation-hes-right/#61c321607860

”Ed Rensi, a former CEO of McDonald's USA, had a revelation about automation while attending the National Restaurant Association Show in Chicago this week about the push to give fast-food workers a $15 hourly minimum wage

"If you look at the robotic devices that are coming into the restaurant industry, it's cheaper to buy a $35,000 robotic arm than it is to hire an employee who's inefficient (and) making $15 an hour bagging french fries," Rensi told Fox Business Network.

McDonald's Corp. CEO Steve Easterbrook, speaking Thursday at the Oak Brook-based global kingpin's annual meeting, said he didn't see wage hikes and improved automation technology as necessarily spelling "job elimination."

But Easterbrook did paint a scenario that suggested the days of inefficient fry baggers may be numbered.

"Ultimately, we're in the service business … so frankly we will always have an important human element because that is what brings the service experience to life," Easterbrook told shareholders. "If we were able to automate certain non-value-added processes in a restaurant, we would do that because it's a smart thing to do.

"But then that gives us the opportunity to bring that manpower front-of-house," he said. "We can offer a better dining-area experience and service experience."

That said, Pizza Hut reportedly intends to used robots as cashiers at some of its restaurants later this year.”

http://newsexaminer.net/food/mcdonalds-to-open-25000-robot-run-stores-by-2016/

”Oak Brook, IL — After seeing a decline in earnings for the first time in nine years and battling workers who are demanding $15/hr, McDonald’s plans to do something no other restaurant of its kind has ever done before; open thousands of stores run entirely by robots.

The 25,000 stores are set to be completed throughout the United States by the end of 2015. Each restaurant will still employ a small team of 1-3 humans to insure all of the robots are working correctly, the food and cleaning supplies remain stocked along with removing the money collected by the robots. Visitors to the restaurants will see these new robots working in harmony at a speed of 50 times faster than the average human employee, with no chance of error. If the launch for the stores is a success, people can soon expect to see robots located in every McDonald’s all over the country and at restaurants around the world.

Paul Horner, a spokesman for McDonald’s told CNN that because of the demand for a $15/hr minimum wage, the company has been playing with the idea of a restaurant run entirely by robots for years and believes their “McRobots” are the answer.”

 

[mikechell 0]

I read ...

 

I can say for a fact that the majority of these increases in price are not from corporate greed.

J

 

and ....

 

In the news since my last post. Foxconn of China replaced 60,000 workers out of 110,000 at just one of thier factories with robots.

 

then I lost interest.

[Adam Saarinen 0]

I'm reminded of that song "In the year 2525"

[zip 0]

I started tying when I was 13 or 14.I got started from a gentleman on this forum.He sent me a kit to start me out.It didn't have a vice or tools...just feathers and fur that I had no idea what to do with.The first year of my tying was all done by hand so my fingers were seriously calloused.

It was a very serious pain in my ass and the good lord knows I was a pain in the ass to folks around here begging for materials because I was too young to work.

Then I got a break!Got a job at a baseball stadium and claimed my 150 a week which all went right into actual tools.I finally had a vice,a bobbin,stacker and dubbing spinner (neither of which I ever use).I did everything to make the most of my money and materials.Went to a series of 10 classes at BassPro which still gets me a little discount and became a platinum rewards member so I was getting money back after several purchases.

Then along came Orvis....and I was completely broke!I loved the quality of the stuff,but the price(even before H1n1) was up there!

Then another big sexy lady came....The salmon fly!And you can probably imagine how that went.

End of the day:Prices go up (remember when your papaw used to tell you about getting an RC cola and burger for 15cents?)Remember when gas was below a dollar?Remember when you could buy a 49 Fleetwood Deluxe for $1500?

Why spend a lot of money on stuff your going to throw in the water,snag in trees,logs,and feed to fish?I used to frequent the craft store a lot in the younger day.

As with most hobbies;it's as expensive as you make it.

 

Times...they are a changin'

[milkman 0]

 

Another thing... Inflation.

 

 

It's a good thing we don't have any inflation. No telling how fast prices would be going up on everything.

[Bimini15 0]

I don't think tying will go away. The price of flies also goes up, so it will be still be cheaper to tie your own.

I don't think we generally tie to save money anyway, but because of the enjoyment. And as long as you enjoy it, you will find a way to keep the hobby within budget. UV resins are pricey, but we will always have Hard as Nails.

I do think that the challenge for future tiers will be to figure out what they truly need to get started, rather than a bill of goods, but that's what the internet is for. Many of you were not so lucky when you started, so do not feel bad for them. Just try to help when they ask.

[flytyerinpa 0]

Think I'm gonna have to move to Switzerland $2441.00 a month I could live like a king. I never made that much a month and never will.

[josephcsylvia 0]

Wait a min.... does someone here actually tie flies to save money? Ba hahaha. Besides Mike of course lol sorry Mike.

[rstaight 0]

Fly tying is the most expensive endeavor I have taken on with the premise to save money. I used to tie just for the sake of tying. Had to try every technique, material, and pattern I got grubby hands on.

 

Though I don't tie as much as I used to I still have to try some of the new things that come along. Tough I will use craft store materials when needed I don't really worry about cost. When I spend $60 for a cape or $30 for a saddle I know I will have it a long time.

[mikechell 0]

S'ok, Joseph. I do believe I am the only one on here. Of course, I might also be the only one who ties flies JUST for fishing.

This is a fly tying site (with guys who might use their flies to fish) ... I should probably be on a fly fishing site (with guys who might tie flies for fishing).

[mikechell 0]

Reviving this thread to show off ... I figured this was better'n starting a new thread.

Stopped at Gander Mountain (Lake Mary, FL.) on my way home. They are clearing out a lot of items.

"50% off already marked down prices."

Dug through a couple of bins and found this stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And paid $11.53.

 

 

Y'all might want to check out your local Gander Mountain ... see if they've got reduced prices, too!

[Bimini15 0]

My local Gander Mtn. got rid of their fly shop within a year from opening. Missed the clearance sales altogether...

[xpman 0]

I don't think there's a fly shop out there without a bargin bin I know I've always had one. I never have understood the argument about prices going up. Prices change for what ever reason lack of stock gas prices, etc, etc, so when do you put up prices? You think you have high prices try buying the same items with a canadian dollar. (30 plus percent more)

I would not buy a natural item over the web; how do you know what kind of shape it will be in like saddle hackles. When I am shopping for one I go through looking for the one I want. This part of tying has not changed when I want an item I go through the whole peg to find the best quality item can't do that mail order. Even man made items will differ die lots change for what ever reason.

I would like to know how many unwanted items do people get and because it cost too much shipping to return they get stuck with that item.