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Rocco

Skagit Comando Heads

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The discussion on using spey type lines on standard one-handers from the "10 foot' rod question" thread in early July lit a fire under me. So, I've done some more research and launched a small experiment.



The key ingredient in the mix for me was the discovery on Youtube of several videos by the OPST folk out West on the use of their "Comando Skagit" heads -- basically heavy 10'+ front sections linked to mono shooting line --- and skagit casting techniques. They are cast like spey lines with side loops and gradual continuous motion lo load the rod that requires no backcast. The heavy front taper allows use of bigger flies on light lines. (Adding sink tip and floating Versatips to the head gives versatility to fish bottom to top.) In some videos, the use of standard or even short length one-hander rods is the center piece. The heads can be had in gr. weights that cover the full range of 4wt to 10 wt fly lines.



The idea is interesting for me because there are sections of rivers I fish with high and tight foliage banks or deep water that prevents wading any distance out from the banks, These spots hold some very nice fish especially during the high sun phases of the day. This system and casting tactics seem to offer a way to get at them w/o decorating trees with flies.



Also decades ago, I had some success in MI with home made shooting heads fishing off of piers and river mouths for lake run salmon, browns, and steelhead. That entailed heavy sinking lines and brutish standard rods and basic overhead casting that still required some back casting room . (Use the word skagit then and the listener would have probably thought about a particularly hard used Swedish film star!).



I am starting out in the new game with a 5wt 9' TFO Mangrove rod and a 225 gr commando head. If that proves to be a lost cause I'll go to a TFO 11' switch rod also in 5wt and work on down to a 5wt TFO 9' Mangrove.



Keep you posted.



Rocco


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I have been using spey casting technics with a conventional 9' rod for several years. I promote it every chance I get. It usually works much better for me than a conventional roll cast. The technic works with most any line too. Of course some are better than others depending on the situation.

 

I have not used the OPST line, but I've seen their videos. I'm guessing their line would work best with heavier flies or with a sinking leader. I am currently using Wolff Ambush line with good results. However, since I also like to mix in some overhead casts, I'm thinking Rio's Steelhead or their Outbound line might be better. Any thoughts?

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I believe when DT lines were more common this was done a lot. As you have seen, to achieve a good Spey now you need to over line your rod or make/buy a heavy head to shoot.

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I've used rio's skagit max short and the commando heads. The both take some getting used to because of the amount of weight and short length. I currently use the Rio head with the OPST Lazar line on my 11' TFO deer creek 7wt switch. I really like the Lazar line for a running line. It really launches. I would recommend getting a heavier lb test like 35-40 because its easier to grip. I have also put that skagit head onto my 10' 8 wt redington CPX. its pretty fun to cast but it definitely wears out the wrist muscles. I guess if you are looking for a compact setup a single hand skagit is the way to go. I just like having that switch/spey handle to manipulate the rod.

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I really like the OPST (made by RIO) and RIO Skagit Trout heads.

 

Single hand rods 7ft-8ft length

150gr on my 2 wt rods

175gr on the 3wt

200/225 on the 4wt

 

They are not limited to heavy flys,,, I use AirFlo Polyleaders in floating and Intermediate to calm down the relatively heavy head landing on the water and will use these lines for soft hackle wet fly presentations.

 

When the light weight Trout Spey rods come into action we now have 11ft-12ft rods in 2wt, 3wt and 4wt Spey line designations,,, these are outstanding for versatile presentations with the new ultra short Skagit lines.

 

Regards,

FK

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Heavy nets,

as FK said try the RIO trout heads, I have a 10' 7 wt. that I got one of these heads for and it works great.

Piker 20, totally different type of casting, Skagit and scandi lines are actually a head that you attach to a running line and nothing like an actual spey line. I have an older Scott 14' 9 wt. that I still throw a long belly 64' on and it is very efficient to cast ( don't have to strip the head back in like skagit / scandi line) but takes some skill to cast correctly. I do find that there are more and more people showing up on the local waters with two handed rods in 2-3 wt swinging for our stockers if you like that kind of casting go for it. me I will use my two handers on big water for big fish, I like to feel the trout pull a bit.

 

Steve

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I took the plunge myself this week.

 

Got a great combo deal on a Redington Hydrogen 11'4" 3wt mated to a Redington Behemoth reel; OPST Commando shooting head with shooting line; an OPST sink tip and backing all set up for fishing. (Cost WAY less than a Sage or other top of the line "trout spey" rod alone but it looks well made to me.) i also splurged on a spare spool with backing for a Rio 6WT/long bellty/one hander line for Scandi type casting that I already have. The pros at Reds Fly Shop walked me through the rooky traps and got me welll launched . Their videos on you tube with the system are also instructive.

 

Now, to the river to annoy the smallmouth and work the bugs out of my casting.

 

Rocko.

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Okay, I also have joined the ranks of spey rod owners. Mine is on that ragged edge of spey/switch. It is an Echo 5122-4 meaning a 4 piece 5wt. 12'2" spey rod that also works very well for Skagit casting, which is what I'm going to work on right from the start with the outfit. I outfitted this with an 8wt. Ambush line which is a heavy front loaded Skagit type line with a thin running line all in one combination instead of playing with running line and different heads. We'll see how well this works out for me. Using right hand as fulcrum and left hand to cast is going to be the first problem to overcome and I'm sure there's plenty other things on the way to a decent cast to hinder me along.

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VCrider,

the ambush should work fine for the 12'2" one thing to remember for skagit is the 3X you want the head, tip to be roughly 3X the length of the rod. also with normal skagit casts your actually pushing the line with top hand and rotating toward your belt with lower hand as a control. Check out some of the older skagit master videos on you tube with Ed ward he explains it very well. I was frustrated with that style of casting for a while until I bought the original skagit master DVD in 2010. helped almost instantly.

 

steve

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flytyer62, one of the things I have not seen explained in the 200 videos I've watched in the last month is how much line should be out before you go into the actual cast. The Ambush line has the heavy head of 20' one color then changes at the running line. If the head is 20' and I should have 30' of line out to start the cast then is that including the length of the leader and tippet to the fly? All the videos show the guy/gal pulling line before they make their cast and shoot out line. They never tell you how much line they are hauling in and how much they are leaving in the water.

 

Nick

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"If the head is 20' and I should have 30' of line out to start the cast then is that including the length of the leader and tippet to the fly?"

 

Yes (Approximately). I put where the running line ends (head starts) just inside the tip top guide prior to casting. How far inside will depend on the setup and your casting style. Experiment to find the sweet spot.

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VCrider,

with my 12' 7 wt Hardy I use a 450 grain 20' skagit head I will leave the head/tip an about 1 foot of running line out of the rod tip with 10' head = about 31'. this is just enough for the line to dig in and create the all powerful rat tail. remember with this type of line it is one motion. start the cast accelerate thru to the D loop and cast without stopping. When I first learned i found the snap T was the easiest to get consistent with.

 

good luck

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We have two types of lines for Spey casting.

Integrated or one piece continuous line and shooting heads.

 

The integrated line like your Ambush has a color change at the rear of the head for transition into running line.

For maximum loading efficiency the head should "over hang" out of the rod tip 1ft-2ft when performing the cast.

 

If you are struggling,, bring the head into the rod guides as much as you wish, the line will still cast.

When you are comfortable then gradually extend the line to outside of the rod tip.

 

Experiment and you will find what is comfortable.

 

One additional tip,,, slow down the casting motion and rod stroke,,,, think about it and slow down some more.

You have a very long lever and the quick tempo used with SH rods is not need and will not be very efficient.

Good caster appear to be in slow motion.

 

Regards,

FK

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