Pegging Beads... Fishing or snagging?

[FIN-ITE 34 0]

Many states have deemed pegged beads illegal because it is their determination that this rig is designed to hook the fish on the outside of the mouth. Thereby classified as snagging.

[mikechell 0]

... Was the presentation designed to illicit a strike like the streamer and stinger (for short strikes) then I would say no it's not snagging even though the hook did in fact snag the fish.

I didn't look it up again, but the last time I did ... As far as "World Record" stipulations go ... even if the fish went after the lure, if it's foul hooked outside the mouth, it doesn't count as a "catch".

 

Again, things change and this might not be the rule anymore. Just conversing.

[Adam Saarinen 0]

I see it all the time, people dragging a 3 fly rig through water when there is a salmon & seatrout spawning run, then get upset the fish was faul hooked! All keepers have to be hooked in the mouth here!

[carpflyguy 0]

Well the thing is, using circle hooks can actually catch most of these steelhead inside the mouth. I still consider this snagging, but it's important to consider this.

 

Let's say you're fishing a dry dropper. Fish comes up to hit the dry, misses, you set, and catch the fish in the belly with your nymph. I think most people would consider this a snagged, or foul hooked (apparently the accidental form of snagging). Under this logic, I just don't understand how people still consider pegging beads to be fly fishing, and more importantly, not snagging.

 

It's not where the hook goes for me, it's the fact that you are driving the hook into the fish...

 

Anyways, seems like there's at least some general consensus on here.

[Poopdeck 0]

I don't have a salmon run either but we have the shad run which are said not to eat during their run. It's said they strike shiny objects out of anger. Difference is with shad fishing you set you depths and drop you flutter spoons. They just sit there and when a shad strikes it they get hooked. Ripping anything down stream in hopes of driving the hook into a fishes mouth, as compared to hoping the fish puts it in his own mouth, is snagging. Pretty simple to understand but as long as it's legal it's fishing so it really doesn't matter how we classify it.

[Cold 0]

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[heavynets 0]

Five or maybe ten years ago, advertised in some of the fly fishing magazines, there was a "system" that worked exactly like the pegged bead system. This guy had come up with a way of attaching a hookless nymph to the line with a hook 4"-6" below the the fly. I don't recall if he was selling the nymphs or what. It was advertised for several months and then disappeared. I guess these systems are for people that think the fish are put off by seeing the hook. In heavily fished areas, that may be true.

[SilverCreek 0]

Regulations and opinions vary:

 

http://coloradoflyfishingreports.blogspot.com/2011/05/pegged-beads-and-my-turmoil-about-them.html

 

http://peninsulaclarion.com/stories/022102/out_022102out0030001.shtml#.V8b4LmU3BX8

 

http://www.maineflyfish.com/forums/index.php?/topic/19756-trout-beads-soon-to-be-illegal/

 

https://finsandfeathersonline.com/blog/yes-it-is-snaggingand-illegal

 

Wyoming:

 

[SilverCreek 0]

Five or maybe ten years ago, advertised in some of the fly fishing magazines, there was a "system" that worked exactly like the pegged bead system. This guy had come up with a way of attaching a hookless nymph to the line with a hook 4"-6" below the the fly. I don't recall if he was selling the nymphs or what. It was advertised for several months and then disappeared. I guess these systems are for people that think the fish are put off by seeing the hook. In heavily fished areas, that may be true.

 

That was the Moffitt Angling System. Fly bodies were fixed with a loop knot above the hook just like a pegged egg and when the fish took the fly, the fish were hooked outside the jaw.

 

https://www.google.com/patents/US8006431

 

http://singlebarbed.com/2009/01/24/things-that-make-you-go-huh/

 

http://fly-fishing-and-tying-blog.blogspot.com/2009/05/moffitt-angling.html

 

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/how-fish/2009/09/hookless-flies-wave-future

 

 

 

 

[mikechell 0]

... but I haven't met one of these mental gymnasts yet who can defend a plastic bead as being a fly...

Wait ... a plastic bead as an egg?

An egg pattern fly?

I guess that's not a LOT of gymnastics to think of a plastic bead as a fly!

[Jaydub 0]

If the fish is clearly taking the lure, in this case a bead, and gets the hook inside it's mouth at the same time, how is that any different than say a spinner with a trailing treble hook or an intruder with the hook extending past the material? If your pegging the bead 6" from the hook that's a different story.

[carpflyguy 0]

 

 

... but I haven't met one of these mental gymnasts yet who can defend a plastic bead as being a fly...

Wait ... a plastic bead as an egg?

An egg pattern fly?

I guess that's not a LOT of gymnastics to think of a plastic bead as a fly!

Lol Mike. That's just not a jump that most fly fishers will make. Do you consider a hunk of plastic, with no thread or hook, to be a fly?

[SilverCreek 0]

If the fish is clearly taking the lure, in this case a bead, and gets the hook inside it's mouth at the same time, how is that any different than say a spinner with a trailing treble hook or an intruder with the hook extending past the material? If your pegging the bead 6" from the hook that's a different story.

 

One difference is that the spinner or fly is a single lure/fly attached to the leader and not two separate items that are separately attached to the leader. So the pegged egg is not a fly or a lure.

 

However the most important difference for me is clearly the intent of the rig. This is the "intent vs result" basis of judgement.

 

The intent of the pegged egg is that the fish take the egg and then get hooked outside the mouth. The intent of the spinner/intruder is that the fish take the hook into its mouth. If it gets hooked out side of the mouth, that was an unintended result.

 

https://www.quora.com/Is-morality-based-more-on-the-intent-or-results-of-our-actions

 

If the pegged egg results in the fish getting hooked inside the mouth, this is not the design of the rig. It is a good "result" from a "bad" action

 

https://www.quora.com/Is-an-action-taken-with-good-intent-but-having-a-bad-effect-good

 

http://www.testbig.com/gmatgre-essays/claim-action-morally-correct-if-amount-good-results-action-greater-amount-bad-results

[mikechell 0]

 

 

... but I haven't met one of these mental gymnasts yet who can defend a plastic bead as being a fly...

Wait ... a plastic bead as an egg?

An egg pattern fly?

I guess that's not a LOT of gymnastics to think of a plastic bead as a fly!

Lol Mike. That's just not a jump that most fly fishers will make. Do you consider a hunk of plastic, with no thread or hook, to be a fly?

 

I've mentioned before, I am a fly fisherman who ties flies for fishing. I fish the waters of Florida ... no egg patterns used down here that I know of, so I don't tie them.

If I am ever going to be in an area that eggs would be a good lure ... yeah, I'll probably do "bead eggs" ... but they will be on the hook, not somewhere up the leader.

 

I also enjoy doing nothing, as stated in my signature, so I probably wouldn't bother learning how to tie eggs for one trip.

 

Yeah, I make that leap. I do more "gymnastics" than that getting out of bed to go to work in the morning !!!

[carpflyguy 0]

Mike - If you tie a bead egg into the hook somehow, I wouldn't even consider that not fly fishing. It's just the way the rig is now.

 

 

 

Not that the head matters, I still think that even with those fly rigs with the fly setup with no hook, you're snagging the fish. Didn't fool it into taking a hook. While it's slightly closer to fly fishing than using a pegged hunk if plastic, you're still driving that hook into the fish.