Thread keeps breaking when completing whip finish

[SpokaneDude 0]

I have a Marc Petitjean whip finish tool; when I'm done tying a fly and do my whip finish thing, regular thread doesn't break. However, when I use Pearsall silk and release the silk from the bottom hook, while tightening the silk, it ALWAYS breaks! I have noticed that the silk is made up of 3 individual threads... I assume somehow they get caught up on each other and snap... (just a noob's guess).

 

Any suggestions on how to whip finish using silk successfully?

[Dave G. 0]

I have a Marc Petitjean whip finish tool; when I'm done tying a fly and do my whip finish thing, regular thread doesn't break. However, when I use Pearsall silk and release the silk from the bottom hook, while tightening the silk, it ALWAYS breaks! I have noticed that the silk is made up of 3 individual threads... I assume somehow they get caught up on each other and snap... (just a noob's guess).

 

Any suggestions on how to whip finish using silk successfully?

Try waxing your thread before you whip it. So take some tying wax or bees wax or a combo there of and rub it on the thread between the hook shank and the spool, then hook your thread up on the whip finisher and whip as usual. Let us know how you make out.

[phg 0]

Also, try letting it untwist before you do the whip finish. Each time you wind around the hook shank, you add a twist to the thread. By the time you finish the fly, the thread can be twisted pretty tightly. This can cause it to knot up when you try to pull the thread through to complete the whip finish. Synthetic threads are a bit tougher than silk, but it can be an occasional problem for them too, especially in smaller sizes.

[Monk57 0]

You could tie a half-hitch to hold everything in place, then hand whip-finish.

[rockworm 0]

My first Petijean bobbin cut Uni 8/0 when I applied a little pressure. The thread would break right where the tip of the wire end curls around and passes under itself. I couldn't figure out why- but I suspect the thread somehow got pinched in there. I got the tool replaced and haven't had any trouble since.

 

My bad! You were talking about a different tool.

 

I agree with Dave G's comment. Whipping Gossamer silk is much easier if you apply pure beeswax to the silk. Any tackier wax will make it difficult to pull the thread through.

[Dave G. 0]

You could tie a half-hitch to hold everything in place, then hand whip-finish.

I still like to hand whip sometimes, if just to keep in practice. Sometimes I wonder how many noobs bother to learn. It's well worth knowing because the tool might one day fall into a crack in the floor or what ever, not be found, who knows what , but you can still tie off your fly if you know how to hand whip.

[mikechell 0]

Even if you start with untwisted thread, when you whip finish, the wraps over the tag end will get twisted, once for each wrap. If you do not keep the loop tight as you pull it through the wraps, it will furl up and create a knot. You can't pull the knot through, and it will snap at the knot, not after the wraps.

 

 

[SpokaneDude 0]

Even if you start with untwisted thread, when you whip finish, the wraps over the tag end will get twisted, once for each wrap. If you do not keep the loop tight as you pull it through the wraps, it will furl up and create a knot. You can't pull the knot through, and it will snap at the knot, not after the wraps.

 

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I think that's exactly what's happening... I'll try it again in the morning, along with waxing the silk... I'll get back to the forum with the results... thanks everybody!

[JSzymczyk 0]

I don't know about the pettijean tool, but you need to keep the "loop" under tension as you draw it down and complete the knot. when I have a whip finish break during the final tightening, it is usually because the thread is dragging against some sharp edge of a material at the head, or the sharp edge of the hook wire at the eye.

[Crackaig 0]

First suspect is twist, If you are right handed each turn around the hook shank adds 1/2 a turn of twist. If you relax the thread before forming the whip finish you will gain in two ways.

i, The whip finish loop will only have the twist in it that is put there by forming the whip finish.

ii, The whip finish will tighten down more.

If your thread is twisted into a tight rope the loops of the whip finish will only tighten down to the roped up thread. When you cut off the thread the end will unravel, making the loops loose. This is why you will always see me spin the bobbin before forming a whip finish. Even if you do that make sure you have something smooth to guide the loop down. In my case it is either my dubbing needle or the points of my tweezers that I use. If you use a whip finisher then the hook on the end of it.

If you want to check if there is any "catch" on the implement you are using wad up some fine dubbing, Superfine, Fly Rite or similar. Push the point into it, and turn. If the point drags fibres out of the dubbing when you pull it out then there is a scratch or burr on the point. You need to polish that off. If I get one on my dubbing needle I use the back of my scissors to polish it off. You'll have to be a bit more creative with the hook, but some really fine wet and dry paper or steel wool should do it.

 

You should always wax pure silk thread to prevent it rotting with the slightest bit of damp.

 

Cheers,

C.

[vicrider 0]

I use a cheap Materelli (sp) whip finish tool. I use something like 90% silk on flies bigger than 16 includin YLI and Pearsall's Gossamer. I just don't have breakage at the knot. I mean none. I do like mentioned above and slide the hook on the tool right to the knot before sliding out. I don't wax the thread except in rare cases where it's called for in pattern. Don't know why you'd have this trouble and so consistently but I'd have to suspect the tool you're using and get the more standard whip finisher. As for hand whipping, if your problem was line curling before drawing under loops then it is much harder to keep tight line all the way to the knot holding thread with hand than with tool.

 

I thought I should edit this to mention that I do occasionally break thread tying it off but it's not with silk, which is a basically heavier thread, but with 16/0, 17/0, and Spiderweb. If I get heavy handed with these threads I break them. What I do a lot now is dab some CA on thread before pulling knot tight, then slicing with razor close to knot.

[fishingbobnelson 0]

I would check your tool for a burr, run it through a cotton ball and see if it collects fibers. I had a burr on a bobbin once, started breaking thread the first time I used it, Returned for replacement.