Using two different sized hackles on Fran Betters Ausable Wulff

[Byron 0]

I was re-watching a video on YouTube of Fran Betters tying his Ausable Wulff.

 

He very heavily hackles the fly. A brown and grizzly feather and puts lots of wraps of both on the fly.

 

I happened to pick up on something he said while hackling the fly that I had overlooked before. He said he uses two different sized hackles so that if the longer barbules feather breaks through the surface, the shorter hackle sized barbules will maintain the fly on the surface.

 

Anyone else do this? Think it would work as he explained?

 

Thanks!

[Piker20 0]

When I wind two hackles in any fly I prefer to do this as I like the depth it gives the dressing and I like the finished look of it. Normally I choose one hackle the hook gape and one just under.

[Dave G. 0]

I do that on some of my ties, generally not just two lengths but two colors as well. The stiffest barbs I have are on my grizzly neck feathers and I'll add one to help support the others. I never thought of the two lengths and water penetration theory. I suppose the shorter stiffer barbs, in my case, help keep the longer softer ( I'm thinking of brown) from collapsing and or folding back. Anyway, the flies look better and float longer with the grizzly added.

[mvendon 0]

Hi Byron,

 

I read this post at FAOL, but it looks like the site is down now. Anyway, I think you're reading too much into it. It looks to me like that video was taken not too long before he passed on. He looks very old in it. I've looked through what I have as far as books with good pictures of his Ausable Wulffs in it and I'm not seeing a lot of difference in the hackle barb length. I didn't find anything text wise on hackle barb length difference. Here's a pic of some of his Wulffs that he tied. You can clearly see the hackle barb length isn't that much different in length between the brown and grizzly. They are from 2004 back to the late 90's. There was a brief time that Kevin Henereby was at his shop around 1999 or 2000, but he was only there for a year or so. I could be wrong on the name or spelling since I'm just going from memory. I don't use a hackle gauge so a lot of the flies that I tie with two different colored hackles are slightly different in hackle barb length.

 

Regards,

Mark

 

[Byron 0]

Moved on,

If you watch the video he explains, in detail, the different length of barbules and explains his theory of why he does it.

 

There are two videos of him tying it. I will post the link of the video in which he explains this in detail.w

 

https://youtu.be/B89K0SgTdhE

 

It is explained at the point in which he selects his two hackle feathers and ties them in behind the wings.

[Byron 0]

Mvedndon

 

Here is the video where he explains his theory in detail as he is preparing the hackle feathers.

 

https://youtu.be/B89K0SgTdhE

[shoebop 0]

Given the fact that the AuSable Wulff has so much hackle makes your question moot, in my opinion. Seriously, look at those things. Doubled up hackle, whether all the same lengths or different lengths, will float well regardless. Tie them either way you like and I'm sure you will enjoy equal success with both styles.

[Byron 0]

Certainly agree that such an "over-hackled" fly may well float well.

 

But, my interest was in Fran's discussion about the use of two different sized hackles and the fact that he said it was done in order that if the longer barbuled hackle broke through the meniscus, the shorter ones would continue to support.

 

We all use two different colored hackles on patterns like the Adams and others. But it is done primarily to blend the two colors, and some suggest to give the suggestion of movement.

 

I am wondering if anyone else is aware of Fran's technique and reasoning. Can you point to other tiers who explain the use/purpose of purposely using two different sized hackles??

 

I am always curious about different concepts and theories in tying that I hear from highly regarded "pioneers" in the endeavor.

[flytire 0]

sorry but i have never heard of any flies that use 2 different hackles with different length hackle fibers

 

ie: one hackle is 1.5 times the gape of the hook and the other hackle is equal to the gape of the hook

 

i think everybody is reading the original question incorrectly. double hackled flies are common but that wasnt the question

 

frans concept sorta makes sense but i dont think it would be a magic bullet for the trout to concentrate on.

 

theyre keyed on a silhoutte and not 5-6 fibers that penetrated the surface.

 

i mean how many hackle fibers would actually penetrate the surface film?

 

i guess it boils down to if you believe in the concept/technique then you should incorporate it into your dry flies

[Byron 0]

Thanks Flytier,

You understand my question. On its face, what Fran says seems to make sense. The odd thing is that I can't seem to find anyone aware of the proposition or having adopted it.

 

And, it is not about fish attraction (the two different sizes), but about increased "floatability).

[phg 0]

Sure, I do the same, but not really on purpose. I select two hackles for the size fly I'm tying, but, invariably, they will be slightly different in barb length. Also, once you wrap the hackle around the hook shank, no 2 barbs stick up/down the same amount. So, yes, the theory sounds good, but no, it doesn't really work that way.

[Byron 0]

Appreciate that phb,

Yes, it is difficult to select two feathers with the same sized barbules...but he made a point of purposely selecting a longer barbules one and a shorter one. Leads me to believe they would be significantly different length barbules.

 

If all two hackled flies have barbules of differing length, whether on purpose or not, and they float very well, that may buttress his theory? Right?

 

By the way, his explanation begins at about minute 3:30 in the video.u

 

[Gene L 0]

Watched the video. I can't say I'd purposely select two different size hackles, but I agree that double-hackling a fly makes it float longer. I concede to his knowledge and experience, however.

[Byron 0]

I have tried differing hackling methods on some somewhat standard flies as it seems to me that insect legs are not all in one place when the insect is on the water. In this case, you definitely need to use a shorter barbules feather for the rear hackle:

 

 

 

 

 

[rockworm 0]

If you tye one hackle in close touching turns then, since a second hackle would have to be wrapped on top of that hackle, the second hackle would have to have shorter barbs to extend the same distance as the first.