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SilverCreek

Is the FF Industry Sacrificing Ethics for the Hero Shot

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Yeah, I mistyped ... and you guys caught it. My second post on the subject was more appropriate, "I would never target an "out of season" fish. Accidental catches of such fish is not illegal, only the keeping or 'harassing" of such fish."

 

I meant, "If you hook and KEEP a fish out of season."

 

Vic, I've been in a few tournaments. Small, local ones. I've watched a few large tournaments. I've fished many bodies of water that are routine sites for big name tournaments and caught quality fish from them. From my own experience, tournament fishing has not harmed the populations of those waters in ANY way. So, I'm neither for nor against tournaments. I don't fish them anymore, but I don't think they're a threat.

 

On the other hand, I watched a couple of guys in a bass boat pull up to a group of bank anglers. They asked if anyone was fishing for food, which of course, they all were. They then proceeded to hand out 3 or 4 big bass to each of the people. They must've had 20+ fish, and gave them away. I figure it was 1) to keep the game warden from finding them like that, and 2) to impress the bank anglers of their fishing prowess. It wasn't some altruistic act. To me, it was disgusting and I couldn't help but wonder how often they did it. THAT'S the kind of people I think should be drawn and quartered. (I do miss the old punishments)

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I feel like what the author was trying to say is that today's fishing style and demographic has changed.It seems that he believes morals and ethics are being sent on their merry way.And I have to agree to a certain extent.

 

The new generation of fisherman is something that annoys me greatly.Fishing for fame,free stuff,getting your name out there etcetera is easy to do now in the day where the internet is king.What these people don't realise is that by fishing on top of someone,getting in the way of someone to take a picture,jumping in front of another angler in line at a bait store or feeling entitled enough fish without a liscense is just unsportsman like.All for what?A picture with a fish a guide got you on to post on YouTube or facebook?Phsssh!!!Please!

 

What I don't agree with is that the author was really bashing folks who fish spawners. In every fishery there is a season and limit for a reason.If the season is open and the fish happen to be spawning;I will take my limit because I paid for the damn liscense.If fishing for fun it will be released for the next guy.I WILL NOT,however,take one fish over or even attempt to fish without a liscense!That is poaching and I despise poachers.THAT is what ruins the fishery for people,not catching a spawning fish that is prolific in most streams.Im not against people who catch and release.I think is comes down to your personal preference.

 

Just my thoughts and opinions.Have a good one y'all!

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i don,t believe in guides and if you use guides your promoting all these kinds of behavior directly and indirectly..they all have great imaginations..lol.

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I'm a little surprised to see multiple people on this thread criticizing guides and anglers who employ them. I don't use guides regularly myself, and I'm well aware that there are "guides" out there who encourage what I consider to be unethical behavior in their clients and/or who are jerks themselves, but every one that I've ever fished with has been incredibly friendly, courteous and professional to a fault, and a fierce advocate for the rivers and the fish. I don't see how hiring good, ethical, conservation-minded guides in any way supports any of the negative behaviors that have been discussed in this thread.

 

To those that consider hiring a guide somehow "cheating", I would suggest that maybe you are being a bit short-sighted in holding that view. There are many good reasons to hire a guide. People who are visiting an area for a short time and don't have the time to explore the local fisheries but still want to get out and wet a line, for instance--in that situation, it makes perfect sense to hire a guide, like I did recently when I traveled to Florida, and wanted to fish the Everglades. I would never in a million years have been able to pull that adventure off without the help of my excellent guide. Or how about people who want to fish a river that requires fishing from a boat, but who do not themselves own a boat--another good reason to hire a guide. Or people who are older, or somehow physically impaired, and who need a little help getting around a lake or river. Or people like me (again), when I visited Colorado with my kids a few years ago--I wanted them to learn to fly fish, and I knew an energetic young guide would be able to get them both casting and catching fish much more efficiently (and in a more fun way) than I could. The guide I hired to do that was perfect; that trip was 4 years ago and both kids still talk about him and what a good time they had.

 

A good guide can be an ambassador for the sport and for fish and their habitats in a way that will turn newcomers into dedicated anglers and conservationists. Of course there are a few bad apples among them, but I would challenge anyone to name a profession where that isn't the case.

 

If you don't want to use a guide yourself, that's fine, but I don't see the need to criticize others who do.

 

I am not a guide myself (couldn't do it; I'd strangle someone on the first trip and that would be the end of my guiding career :) ), but I have a lot of respect for the guides I've fished with.

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I may be a little hard on guides in general based on stories I've heard about elk guides and the sports that sat in camp playing cards and drinking while "tipping" the guides to provide a trophy. Then there is the thing about hiring a guide to provide a service but being required to pay a "tip" on top of the contracted price if you actually want the service to be provided (I had a few conversations with guides on another forum on this subject) or it may be the willingness of guides to accuse the competition of all sorts of stuff in attempts to cause that competitor loss of business or permits or it may be from guides working to keep non-guided folks from using public lands/waters.

 

Hire of a boat with an operator or paying an instructor to teach you to cast or to read water isn't cheating any more than hiring a piano teacher to learn music or buying a bus ticket. And as such none should require an argument about ethics, if that's all that is involved.

But, are piano teachers required to have a license to teach and does law give them exclusive rights to teach within a geographic area?

 

Ethics in fishing and hunting really did not exist a hundred years ago and for the most part are the invention of media publishers in the late 20th century. My grandfather's generation fished with wire nets and teams of horses, duck hunted with punt guns. It was legal and it was efficient. Livelihoods depended on methods that are no longer allowed and passenger pigeons are now extinct.

 

I may not want to fish the redds, but if it's legal and another guy wants to, is it my place to scold him?

 

Are not the trout in the article an invasive species? Is it morally right to encourage invasives to naturalize?

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I have hired guides in the Smokie Mountins and in Florida. Those guides were all excellent. They all helped with different techniques and learning the areas for when I returned.

 

Now when I was in Maui I went on deep sea charter and all the guys on the boat talked about was getting a tip even though the fishing was lousy. Only 1 fish for 4 people in 8 hours. And that was 5 minutes from the dock on the way back in.

 

Now I didn't mind the 8 hour boat ride. Seen a the island from different side I would have never seen. But tip tip tip.

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This has been an interesting read all the way through. Sometimes got a little shaky as to keeping everything friendly and related to the original post but pretty held together. To me guides are an interesting part of the entire fishing game. Friend was a full time guide up on Big Saganaga Lake in MN for years. When he and I went up to fish together after Lodge on lake was shut down we'd each do a guide trip or two to pay for our campsite at the resort and split a few bucks with the owner. It was mainly anchoring, putting a minnow on, watching bobber go down, taking off fish, putting on another minnow, clean fish for them at end of day. We'd move around throughout day not because we had to for fish but to keep from going nuts and give the tourist some ride time among the islands and "earn" our tip.

 

When I had a charter boat on Lake Superior for salmon and trout for a few years I never mentioned tips but thanked people nicely for them. This would usually cover the percentage the sports shop got for lining up people from his shop. Now I've been relegated health wise to give up walking and wading but love to do the drift boats. Guides vary tremendously but all have been carefully legal and tried to put us on fish. One thing I learned from fishing tailwaters in boats is you cannot do this well on your own. On those trips the guide works hard to give you the boat control needed for tossing your bobber out and watching it for the "take". I would much prefer wading and fishing pocket water with small streamers or nymphs like I did up in northern MN and WI then this type of fishing but I need my fishing fix like anyone else and for me the guided boat trip is my answer.

 

I think the consensus of opinions on the thread is the illegal activities and the seemingly above the law attitude the "Trout Pro" had was a much bigger problem than fishing a redd where it is open water and legal. If those fish really need that protection so bad the DNR should afford them that protection. We can question another's ethics but if the studies the State Fish and Game determine an activity legal then we do not have the right to stop someone fishing legally because we feel he shouldn't be targeting those fish. Good thread, good read.

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I guess that I also object to laying blame for an individuals crime on all of a widely varied group. My long time observation indicates that the group "fly fishermen" is very similar to real people in that the individuals in that group vary in many respects.

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TJM, good point..on the other hand it,s so much easier for the criminal/scoundrel to hide in the group..and they usually end up running it..lol.

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"In every fishery there is a season and limit for a reason. If the season is open and the fish happen to be spawning; I will take my limit because I paid for the damn liscense."

 

This thread has been a largely civil discourse, so I will try to be careful here. I disagree with the above quote, which implies that anything goes if it's legal. There are many legal activities that are not the actions of a sportsman. Just as examples ... handling your small or non-target fish with disdain, unhooking them roughly and dropping them on the rocks or kicking them back into the water. I guess not all of us strive to be a sportsman or woman... so be it. But I like to think that the fly fishing community has a relatively high ratio of sports-people within its ranks.

 

The world and its resources are finite. I kill and eat some of the fish I land. When I do, I verbally thank the fish for giving its life and I thank the ocean or river for providing my meal. I kill it swiftly and use all of the meat and bones and sometimes the head into soup. The fish we catch are beautiful creatures. Our attitudes will determine our actions.

 

I'm new to this forum. Please forgive me if I'm already stirring the pot. I'm not a great caster, I use inexpensive gear, and I post my fish pictures on Instagram because my friends post theirs and we love to see each other's successes. I never use guides any more because I don't get the same satisfaction when i catch a fish. Can't afford it anyway.

 

I look forward to learning from you all... ethically, and otherwise.

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I have been fishing almost all my life, and despite the twin hurricanes of Sept. 2004, which did tremendous damage to South Hutchinson Island and some damage to the Indian River Lagoon, these "fake" guides doing their illegal stunts and their photophreaks are the "Used Care Salesmen" who will risk anything for a Dollar.

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I have been fishing almost all my life, and despite the twin hurricanes of Sept. 2004, which did tremendous damage to South Hutchinson Island and some damage to the Indian River Lagoon, these "fake" guides doing their illegal stunts and their photophreaks are the "Used Care Salesmen" who will risk anything for a Dollar.

Really? There are people who sell "used care"? What, like "Empty Nest" mothers who still want to give some T.L.C. to someone?

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