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ryveradair

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Hey everyone, havent been on here in quite a while. Two years ago I up and joined the finest fighting force in the world and have been busy ever since. Just a quick introduction: My name is Ryver Adair and I am currently a United States Marine stationed out in California. I am starting up my own business in my free time and want your opinion on the product idea and if it would be something you or someone you know would be interested in. I am starting up an online subscription box service that delivers materials and instructions to your door each month. The box contains enough material to tie 10 flies and you can choose between a streamer or a dry fly box. Each month contains a different pattern as well as the instructions to tie it. I have it priced at $25/month for the dry fly box and $30/month for the streamers(they use more material and need a wider variety)> The price each month goes down if you pre-order 3,6,or 12 months in advance as well. Please let me know your thoughts on this and if it is something you think you might be into one day.

 

Semper Fi

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Re-welcome to the site. Or welcome back!

 

10 flies for $30.00 (streamers) ... so $3.00 a fly. One can go to a fly shop and buy flies for that price.

 

Not saying you won't get some sales, but I'm thinking most established fly tiers aren't going to be interested at those prices.

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i believe their are established services that already package materials for different flies and are sent out monthly or you can just buy a kit to tie one pattern

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tie-A-Fly-By-Bob-Henley-Fly-Tying-Kits-Ant-PMD-Bugger-Zebra-Midge-FlyMasters-/261170457585

 

https://thetroutspot.com/collections/all/fly-tying-kits

 

https://subscribe.postflybox.com/

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Thank you for your service, and all that welcome back .....

 

I probably have 10-15 cents in materials for the drys I tie ,because I bought in when a dollar had more value, long time passed.

Howsomeever, a trip to the internet stores makes me believe I could buy in now for 50-75 cents each with high quality necks and hooks.

So, I'd be in the "you will sell some but don't quit your day job" camp. I understand you're marketing the service more than the material and paying postage every package and hand sorting just enough of this and plenty of that for each fly. But, my first thoughts are this will work best for the new kid that wants just try it once or twice. Most flytyers are either frugal or downright tightwads.

I can tell you that forty five years ago, there were pattern packs (15 hooks, iirc) hanging in the fly shops and I bought maybe 4 of those to try some exotic pattern or scarce materials but at the same time I drove 2 hours to a NH show and spent half a days pay on one dun neck. And ordered a grizzly out of Ca. that cost me a bit more.

As a beginner the small packs just were not as attractive to me dollar wise as buying top hackle capes and hooks by the thousand. The only attraction, as I recall, was the exotic stuff.

Best of luck though, it is good to see initiative.

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Hey buddy Semper Fi from a retired Marine or just a tired one lol.

 

I agree with flytire.Already kind of done.However if you could find something revolutionary lile a new material that was souley yours you may have better luck through a tying company.The new thing right now are those chocklett wraps and dragon tails.Best of luck buddy and all the best!

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On the other hand....

 

You should not be thinking of us deeply engaged; long in the tooth; and set in our ways tyers like us as your market.

 

The young tyer who is beyond the first wooly bugger stage and starting to appreciate the discipline needed to taking serious steps toward real competency is your best target. He/she does not yet have scads of materials and hooks for many different patterns. And they almost certainly do not have enough of the RIGHT materials to learn by sequentially tying ten of just one pattern at a time and improving as they go along. The lessons thus learned in muscle memory, proportioning of materials, orderly preparation, and the getting the right rythym/speed of tying can all be attractions of the service you are considering. I'd venture to say that even some instructors of aspiring intermediate tyers might find your packages good value too. I'd even like to think it could catch on with the Wounded Warriors volunteer programs.

 

It will of course be hard to do with the constant redeployments asked of you Marines

 

Anyway,congrats on your initiative and ambition.

 

And best of luck and -- as Highlanders used to say -- strength to your arm!

Rocco

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You should not be thinking of us deeply engaged; long in the tooth; and set in our ways tyers like us as your market.

truth

 

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I want to clarify a few points in my business model. 1) I understand that it has been done, I just want to start up as a competitor. With only a handful of competitors, the odds seem pretty good. Just because there are thousands of grocery stores, that doesnt stop people from opening their own. 2) My original marketing demographics was people who are fly anglers. That being said, I also noticed that a majority of the people who fly fish are already engulfed in the addiction. The market is almost non-existent for people who are considered millennials/generation z because most companies sell to people who already got the bug. THAT is the market I am after (people looking for a way to get into this new world while simultaneously utilizing the benefits of the internet). 3) I am set apart from the other companies that already do this same style of business because I am willing to shell out the extra cash for quality materials that are proven to be used time and time again on the water and create loyal customers. The competitors may have a cheaper price, but the product reflects the price they are paying. 4) I am going with more of an education based system. For example: The Foundation Package will be 12 months that teaches someone the techniques, rhythm, and overall essential skills needed to tie flies while simultaneously increasing the difficulty and skill level required so that the customer gains a better overall understanding of the art of tying. This will be implemented with the three main subsets of flies used in fly fishing (dries, streamers, nymphs) and will be supplemented with instructional videos to accommodate those who are more visual/auditory learners while allowing them to utilize their kinesthetic abilities and tie the flies step-by-step in front of them. I will more than likely run a Year 1 test on a subject group of 40 people ranging in age, gender, experience, and location to get statistics on how each participant liked the program. Afterwards, with enough positive results, I can continue providing time-proven angler-approved fly patterns to the customers.

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I'm afraid you'd have little chance at the suggested prices. Also, people would need all the goodies to tie. Even basic supplies in a kit are going to cost him $$ so he is going to shop for materials and he is not likely to put the top quality packages you're building as important as his dollar would buy at the places flytire linked too. Unless you can be competitive with your prices I don't see it working. You use the grocery store example. As my uncle found out years ago all it takes is a Wal-Mart Superstore or a Cub food moving in to undercut your prices and push you out of your store and into their butcher shop as an employee.

 

Thank you for choosing to serve, good luck, but it's not a huge market and already well covered by many large companies with catalogs and well established names. Tough market to break into.

 

Nick

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Great choice joining the Marines. Bad choice trying to make money selling fly fishing stuff like it's a book of the month club.

 

Not trying to be to critical of your plan but there's no way around it. I hope this does not upset you but you asked. No I would not be interested and no I do not know anybody who would be interested.

 

IMHO, the benefits of the internet is why your business idea is doomed to fail. Fly tying use to be a mystery that could only be learned from taking classes and buying lots of books. Now the mystery is gone and everything you need to know is moments away from your fingertips. There are no secrets of fly tying any longer. What hooks, material and order of application are all clearly spelled out a thousand times already on YouTube, FOR FREE. There's no need for a DVD, phamplet, schematic, or box of specific materials.

 

Not trying to rain on your parade but it simply won't work and it will not be profitable. Unless your talking about growing a business to a full service internet fly fishing/tying service to include guided trips with a brick and mortar store located on the banks of a fabled trout stream. If so then your idea could be just another very small service your company can offer but not a way to grow a start up company.

 

Your enthusiasm is great your work ethic appears to be high. I would look for another opportunity.

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I always think it is great for someone to start their own business. When I started MCFR 16+ yrs ago I never thought it would turn into what it has and I am glad I did it. With that said I tend to agree with what the others here are saying. When it comes to fly tying you have a niche type customer base to begin with, then you have to factor in that most tiers are guys that want to collect a ton of materials on their own, plus as Greg just said above with the internet today it has made info easier to obtain. Another problem related to the internet is that it has made this generation of under 40 yr olds become an instant gratification generation so waiting a month for the next pattern/materials is probably not something most people will want.

 

I'm not trying to discourage you even though it may sound that way. I just wanted to give an honest feedback of the idea because I think at best you would be doing a good bit of time consuming work for very little profit. If you do go forward then I honestly wish you the best in your endeavor.

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Call up or visit some of the big and small fly materials outlets and see what they say. Even if it's a door that isn't opening up quite the way you'd like, keep moving through it with your eyes open and other opportunities you hadn't figured out yourself will often appear.

 

Or here's a thought... If it helps you lower your price point and compete call up Whiting (and whatever other pricey suppliers you were thinking of) and see if he'll supply you for free with quality tying feathers for these packages as a means of getting some useful advertising for his product by getting tyers who otherwise wouldn't use his products (because of the high price point) to give them a try. Good sales pitch... "Once you've tied on a Whiting rooster saddle feather you never forget it." You might be able to do something similar with Fire Hole hooks. They're breaking into the market. If you can get your supplies for free by advertising your suppliers, then you could easily undercut the other players, cause you gotta feed only one mouth (or one family's mouth), and they got a bigger bottom line to worry about. Troutline is another great product trying to break into this market (Lucian's on this forum), maybe they'll get you free quills, fur, synthetics and the like, again, in exchange for advertising. All of them would be thrilled (I would think) to share that kind of advertising space with Whiting) (so if you get Whiting on first, you'll get the others much easier)...

 

As for getting them started on equipment, Terra offers a beginner kit for $30, so that could be something to look into. You could offer free equipment as part of a year's subscription).

 

Ok, I've said enough. More ideas will cost you free fly kits.

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1) I understand that it has been done

not a problem if your prices are competitive

 

2) My original marketing demographics was people who are fly anglers.

Many flyfishers simply don't want to tie; different strokes... Again, even for the ones who might be interested, Orvis, for example sells dries @$2.29 & streamers @$2.99 ready to fish

 

3) I am set apart from the other companies that already do this same style of business because I am willing to shell out the extra cash for quality materials that are proven to be used time and time again on the water and create loyal customers. The competitors may have a cheaper price, but the product reflects the price they are paying

But the target customer (beginners) won't know the difference or even that quality varies so widely

 

4) I am going with more of an education based system...The Foundation Package will be 12 months that teaches

This just might help, I consider it a positive. However, if you market it as monthly I have doubts that many will stay with it. Sold as a teaching package, the initial offering should include a full set of tools and instructional DVD/book, and the full program subscription.

Point here is, one who has tools is already initiated and has very likely moved beyond the one fly pack idea, and one who has no tools will have to shop for them at your competitors store, making purchase of materials from them more attractive.

 

I don't know or care what demographic makes up x,y,z or millennial generations, I don't think they know either; but, I strongly disagree that they are not being serviced or targeted by the existing suppliers. When i walk into an Orvis shop or Cabela's the entire store appears to be aimed at at my children's' children. Even the sales force is made up of the very young. They are polite but they don't exert much effort at the more experienced customers.

This could be a matter of location or perspective.

 

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I'm not trying to discourage you even though it may sound that way. I just wanted to give an honest feedback of the idea because I think at best you would be doing a good bit of time consuming work for very little profit. If you do go forward then I honestly wish you the best in your endeavor.

I think steeldrifter speaks for all of us when he says this.

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