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There are so many patterns and variations out there now that unless new names were developed the only way to keep them all straight would be to use a number system - and that would just plain suck. sad.gif

 

Yes glory hunters are out there, and they always will be, but at the end of the day we are all involved in an art which has limitless creativity and opportunity to make something "your own" in whatever way people interpret that. If it wasn't for this opportunity to customize, substitute and modernize I think we would have a grand total of 15 patterns out there.

 

Also, new tools, materials and techniques which are hitting the market each year are opening the door for a whole era of trully new patterns. Look at the impact that the Magic Tool has had. Same with materials such as Sili Skin, hot glue, glass beads, Loco Foam, etc... Now we have even more new materials and tools coming out which will allow us to be more creative so who knows what we'll be talking about next season wink.gif

 

 

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Hehe, interesting thread smile.gif

 

The final answer will come when nanobots are implanted in each hook to detect which fly is tied on so that the originator is awarded a buck and a half each time it's tied.

 

When that happens, let the lawsuits begin!

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Hi Group,

 

This is alway an interesting subject line to read people's thoughts. I've always believed "if you think you've invented something" talk to your grand parents generation. Meaning, there are not many new techniques (fishing or tying) coming down the line.

 

Let me share a couple of (estimated) "givens" in a small theroy of mine:

 

1. Let's say for arguments purposes that there are 5 million trout fly fishers/tiers in the world.

2. Just for arguments sake, let's assume we all share 100 different materials.

3. So 5M tiers/fishers are trying to imitate the same 30 general food items that trout eat using the materials in item #2. I bet there are more than a few duplications in pattern type or ideas!

 

That said, every now and then (at least every decade) a revolutionary idea comes to the fore. One that comes to mind was Gary LaFontaine's addition of a sparkle yarn "gas bubble" to imitate an emerging caddis. I don't remember that ever happening before until Gary introduced it along with his caddisfly book.

 

Over the years there has been a time or two when I thought I had discovered something only to find I was a century, decade, or year too late. Maybe a new Gary will come along one of these days and we'll all get something new. Until then, take care & ...

 

Tight Lines - Al Beatty

www.btsflyfishing.com

 

 

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Okay, one more reply on this subject to touch on something Pujic brought up...

 

Whenever you venture to represent something, regardless of the media, it is art. Obviously, fly tying is an art, as Pujic said. Yet, because of the functional aspect of the end result (the fly is tied to catch fish) a couple conflicts arise. One, is that non-artists participate. That conflict is short-lived, however, because those people become artists in their own right.

 

The other conflict has to do with design. Take the chair you're sitting in. An artist designed it, but a company considers it their design and has the rights, etc. and seeks to name it this or that.

 

Just think if some fine artist tried to say his painting was a watercolor and all others were copies, regardles of what they're called and how they're done. Ludicrous? Of course. Same with a Deceiver. If Lefty tied it, or it is tied just like Lefty does it, it's Lefty's Deceiver. If Bob ties it different, it's Bob's Deceiver. I tie the Squirrelly Cuss, but if someone ties it with badger hair, it's plainly something else, even though it may look similar, so it ought to have a different name.

 

In essence, this is art. The true artists and lovers of art know the masters and copy their works, eventually breaking out into their own style. It may be that this style is similar to the style of those they studied, or it may be something completely different. This has been the way for as long as art has been around.

 

To touch on Al's comments, if you give 100 art students watercolors and paper, and tell them to paint that tree over there, you'll get 100 different versions. And they would all be named according to what the artist perceived/felt in painting the tree.

 

As for new materials and tools, new material is simply a new medium to work with, hence new patterns and styles. New tools, like the Magic Tool, can make old techniques accessible to those either unaware or unable to produce the effect by the old method, and in introducing the technique brings more artists into the pool to produce a broader range of styles. So I say thank goodness for folks like Marc who bring us these tools, even though I don't have one, nor do I think I'll ever need one.

 

Create your art, name it what you will, pay proper homage to your mentors.

 

 

 

 

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To look at this with a different angle, let's say you invented a completely new fly. You researched it thoroughly, documented every step, maybe even invented a new material for the pattern. You even went as far as shelling out $5k to patent the design.

 

To get around a patent, you only need to change the design by 10%. That's not hard to do with a fly pattern. So, somebody comes along, adds a couple of strands of krystal flash, uses an alternate to your unique material, and slaps a new name on it...technically and legally, it's a new pattern, even if everybody knows it's a knockoff.

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I've enjoyed reading the responses to Steve's initial opener- I think this is one of, if not THE MOST civilized, discussions of this subject I've read over time. Everyone is to be applauded for maintaining a respectful manner toward one another.

 

I avoided entering a personal opinion or observation. The respondents covered my thoughts as the thread progressed.

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"Look I tied a silverside with Angel Hair instead of Flashabou! I want to be in a book!!!".

 

Steve, people should give credit to those whom they copy. For example, Andy Burk, from the Reno Fly Shop, according to Mike Martinek, tied silversides with Angel hair in the early 90's... He will be sending me flies and his history back then. Capt. Ray S. and Dave Skok have used Angel hair for some time, including Martinek. Steve Farrar has done some nice stuff with DNA. If they copy Farrar they should say so .There were guys on the Cape who were using DNA that first summer that the stuff came out... All those flies were mere copies of ...say the usual clouser, but was with DNA material. A new fly is one, in my opinion, that is tied with a "new" technique.... not a DNA clouser instead of bucktail. Nevertheless if someone ties a fly with the new material and it works well, they should share it. I did a Feather brain fish head to simulate a fish chopped in half...when I posted, I said I got the Idea from Mark Sedotti... the The claws and carapace to my crab was an Idea I got from watching Rich Murphy use pheasant feathers for lobster claws. Now I see guys like Jack Gartiside tie crab and flounder flies for "Chatham and Monomoy"...without the epoxy... no problem... he calls it his dab fly...Kenny Abrames had that same crab fly a year before Gartside... it's all B.S.

 

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QUOTE (striblue @ Mar 10 2005, 10:58 AM)
"Look I tied a silverside with Angel Hair instead of Flashabou! I want to be in a book!!!".

... it's all B.S.

A new fly is one, in my opinion, that is tied with a "new" technique.... not a DNA clouser instead of bucktail.

I'm with you, striblue! headbang.gif

 

Simply put: A Mickey Finn is a Mickey Finn... no matter what it's made of. Yellow, red yellow wing. Be it Calf tail, bucktail, maribou, married feathers, hackle barbs or any number od synthetics....even with an added bead or a muddler head...

 

Clouser Minnow...It dosen't matter what color combination you choose.... or the materials used to make the streamer/jig ...it's an upsidedown hook with weighted eyes tied as a streamer/jig.

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I read a book by John Garach and he stated that in the early 1900s there was a book published that had a history of flies as far back as 1850 and he had 2500 patterns listed in his book the old saying rings true there is nothing new under the sun my personal opinion is that as much as we would like to think we have something new it's just a variation of something old tightlines big_fish cool.gif

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Very nice discussion. So many fly tiers around now days. Back in grandpa's day, there wasn't as many of us and a good fly tier was looked upon with some awe and respect. Today, fly tiers are a dime a dozen and some of the "worship" sentiment is lost. Lets face it, tying a fly isn't that hard once you learn a few basic techniques. I know children that are producing some great flies.

 

New materials will continue to be developed. These materials will be used with the standard tying techniques. Sometimes you will find a way to mix and match old and new techniques with old and new materials to enhance a few patterns. That is the creative fun with fly tying. Everyone wants to be recognized for his/her talents, but most times you will always find someone else who can do it better, prettier or faster than you can.

 

I don't know where the idea of putting ones name on a fly came from. Most of the historical flies were given names that didn't include the name of the tier (with a few exception).

 

I have followed the history of early Montana tiers and find that they gave their flies names like: Sandy Mite, Fizzle, Bunyan Bug, Black Creeper and Rock Worm.

 

Most of the current "noticed" tiers are only noticed because they are getting published in the magazines and books. I bet if Paul MaClean (Norman's brother) was around today and saw all the articles and shuffling for fly tying and fishing prominence he would likely say, "I'd like to get that guy out on the Big Blackfoot with a bet on the side!"

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Why bother tying flys? If it is all the same old stuff? How boring is that?

 

No need for a neet site like this. No need to thumb though the newest fly magazine for new Ideas. No excitement to go try the new fly off your vice. Might as well go fish worms. bs.gif I tell you bs.gif

 

Every week in this buisness I see new inovations, it really is there. And I think it is a huge reason alot of us come here to visit.

 

So to those of you out there coming up with new Ideas I say KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! and don't let the nay sayer's bring you down.

 

As I have been reading this thread I could see how comments here could stiffle a creative mind and that is the last thing I would like to see.

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Here's a different look at this thread.

 

I've got one fly that I feel is my most original. Not because of materials (although they are slightly unique) but because of construction and the way it "presents". I didn't put my name on it or run out looking for a patent or anything like that, I just honestly think it's pretty much an original pattern. I will admit to some pride in that because I do agree most everything's been done before.

 

So let me put it out there to you folks and see if someone knows a predecessor fly.

 

user posted image

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Nice fly. Take a look at the "Ocassion" tied by LaFontaine. You can find it in his book "Trout Flies, Proven Patterns." While the materials are different the basic tying is the same and it is made to float similar to your tie. LaFontaine states, "The Ocassion is a hanging style of dry fly. The hook on this pattern sinks below the surface film, suspended by the circle of hackle at the head." Two hackle tips are used for the wing on his pattern.

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