Handy fly fishing accessory

[Mark Knapp 0]

Mark Knapp, I'm not sure why my post led to you deciding to be "that guy". I didn't say anything about was "is" or "isn't" fly fishing. I wouldn't waste my time making any such assertion, because 1) who am I to say? and 2) frankly, I couldn't care less about such distinctions.

 

I simply stated that I have seen some people here in Michigan use a fly rod to deliver live insects.

 

I only say what I say because this is a site for talking about fly fishing, and since it's a chat site about fly fishing it seemed to me a good subject would be "What is and what isn't fly fishing" to those that care. It's OK if you don't care about such distinctions, others may and it's for them that I wrote what I wrote.

 

Although, I quoted you when I made my opinion known, I didn't mean it solely to you. I did make the same distinction to the OP in an earlier post. This is an open discussion and I meant it for everyone.

 

Distinctions like this are important to some people, certainly in a legal sense (bait is not legal in "fly fishing only" waters in many states), and in an organizational sense (IGFA for instance).

 

I'm not the "bait police". As I said in my post, "people can do what they want" and it's "Just my opinion."

 

I am not here to fight with anybody, but I am here to know other peoples opinions and share my own, often times they will differ, and that's OK with me. I hope we can share opinions without fighting about it.

 

Maybe I came on too strong, it was not my intention. I may owe you an apology if I do, I apologize.

[Bryon Anderson 0]

Mark Knapp, I don't think you came on too strong, I just didn't understand why you quoted my post inside yours. Your post is perfectly legitimate and can stand on its own. I think your reasons for sharing it are spot-on; I agree completely. Quoting my post inside of yours just made it sound like yours was a response to mine, which, in turn, implied that I was saying something about what did or didn't count as fly fishing, which I wasn't.

 

No harm no foul, and I apologize if my earlier response sounded snarky, I didn't mean for it to.

 

Happy Thanksgiving!

[Mark Knapp 0]

Mark Knapp, I don't think you came on too strong, I just didn't understand why you quoted my post inside yours. Your post is perfectly legitimate and can stand on its own. I think your reasons for sharing it are spot-on; I agree completely. Quoting my post inside of yours just made it sound like yours was a response to mine, which, in turn, implied that I was saying something about what did or didn't count as fly fishing, which I wasn't.

 

No harm no foul, and I apologize if my earlier response sounded snarky, I didn't mean for it to.

 

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

We have pretty good moderators here. They are pretty classy. I wrote a joke in answer to your last quote but I probably went too far. And to top it all off, I got promoted to "Advanced Member"

 

Happy Thank Giving everybody

[redietz 0]

This seems useful.

 

But how well would crickets hold up during casting?

Reasonably well, if you have a slow casting stroke. I did it as a kid.

OTOH, fly fishing was invented so that you didn't have to bother with catching live insects

[phg 0]

 

This seems useful.

 

But how well would crickets hold up during casting?

Reasonably well, if you have a slow casting stroke. I did it as a kid.

OTOH, fly fishing was invented so that you didn't have to bother with catching live insects

 

Agreed! Back when I used worms (with a fly rod), I never did like the way my fingers always smelled of worm guts. Yuck! Fly fishing is much cleaner.

[tjm 0]

What constitutes "fly fishing" is strictly up to the authority that governs your water. Some states go by equipment being a "fly rod" and "fly reel"etc. and some go by the type of lure construction. I guess that IGFA only has governance over their contests and has zero legal bearing.

In MO if the lure is constructed of materials used for fly tying and that material is fastened to a single point hook then you are fly fishing regardless of other things like rod, reel, bobbers, sinkers, spinners etc.; jigs and spinner baits are flies if feathers are part of the dressing and a single hook is used. It is common to see jigs and bobbers used with fly rods and also to see spinning tackle used in fly-only waters.

 

Does that back cast rule of IFGA mean that spey casters can not record a fly caught fish? But a trolling fisher could?

[Mark Knapp 0]

What constitutes "fly fishing" is strictly up to the authority that governs your water. Some states go by equipment being a "fly rod" and "fly reel"etc. and some go by the type of lure construction. I guess that IGFA only has governance over their contests and has zero legal bearing.

In MO if the lure is constructed of materials used for fly tying and that material is fastened to a single point hook then you are fly fishing regardless of other things like rod, reel, bobbers, sinkers, spinners etc.; jigs and spinner baits are flies if feathers are part of the dressing and a single hook is used. It is common to see jigs and bobbers used with fly rods and also to see spinning tackle used in fly-only waters.

 

Does that back cast rule of IFGA mean that spey casters can not record a fly caught fish? But a trolling fisher could?

 

I agree with all you've said. Certainly you would need to consult your jurisdiction.

 

The back cast rule in the IGFA includes spey casting and roll casting. Part of the wording in IGFA and Alaska regs includes wording similar to this; the line must carry the fly in the cast not the fly, lure or terminal gear pulling the line in the cast. I will look it up and post it here when I get a chance.

 

Everybody here has their own religion, my opinions are just that, my opinions. I'm somewhat of a purist, bait to me would defeat the purpose of using fly gear.

 

I fish with a fly to make it more challenging and exciting, I hunt with a bow for the same reason. It got too easy, (boring) for me to fish with conventional gear or hunt with a rifle. I could spend more time in the field before my limit was filled. I traded quantity for a higher quality experience. I assumed it was the same for all of us.

 

I would not impose my ideals on anyone else but I don't mind telling you what they are.

 

I say, do what you want as long as it's legal. To me, it's not fly fishing if it's not with a fly rod and a fly any more than hunting with a cross bow is bow hunting.

[xvigauge 0]

Casting that cage would be a pain in the rear !!!

 

And why would fish go after crickets in a cage, anyway ???

 

Even if they DID go for it ... where's the hook ???

Wow that is funny. I wonder how long it took him to come up with that one? He should be writing comedy for professional comedians.

Joe

[mikechell 0]

I see the world in a slightly skewed way, but I'm no comedian. Thank you for the compliment, though.

[Mark Knapp 0]

From IGFA Rules

2. Casting and retrieving must be carried out in accordance with normal customs

and generally accepted practices. The major criterion in casting is that the weight of

the line must carry the fly rather than the weight of the fly carrying the line. Trolling

a fly behind a moving water craft is not permitted. The craft must be completely out

of gear both at the time the fly is presented to the fish and during the retrieve. The

maximum amount of line that can be stripped off the reel is 120 feet (36.57 meters)

from the fly.

F. FLIES

The fly must be a recognized type of artificial fly, which includes streamer, buck-

tail, tube fly, wet fly, dry fly, nymph, popper and bug. The use of any other type of lure

or natural or preserved bait, either singularly or attached to the fly, is expressly pro-

hibited. Only a single fly is allowed. Dropper flies are prohibited. The fact that a lure

can be cast with a fly rod is not evidence in itself that it fits the definition of a fly. The

use of any lure designed to entangle or foul hook a fish is prohibited. No scent, either

natural or artificial is allowed on flies. The use of scented material in a fly is prohibit-

ed.

From Orvis

Orvis Fly Fishing What Is Fly Fishing?

Fly fishing is an angling technique where an artificial "fly" is used to fool fish into biting. The techniques used to cast and present the weightless fly differ greatly from any other form of angling.

When fly fishing, you cannot cast a standard lure; spinner or plug with a fly rod and line, and likewise you cannot cast a weightless fly with a spin casting rod and reel. The weight and taper of the fly line itself is what allows the fisherman to cast and present the lightweight fly.

 

 

[tjm 0]

 

. Casting and retrieving must be carried out in accordance with normal customs

and generally accepted practices. The major criterion in casting is that the weight of

the line must carry the fly rather than the weight of the fly carrying the line

I'll go along with that normal bit, it doesn't say "back cast" - which isn't really normal in all places.

I'm not all that religious about fishing, if you follow the laws; I don't care how you go about it. I really don't think using strike indicators, bobbers or corkies is pure fly fishing, but it is widely accepted by modern anglers, so.. Some of those "nymph rigs" seem to have weights that would pull the line, especially if the line is ultralight, or the "leader" is twenty-eleven feet long.

It's funny kinda, I use a fly rod for all kinds of fishing not to increase the challenge or make the fishing more difficult, but rather to simplify things and make catching fish easier and more efficient. I guess if I wanted a complicated challenge I would take up bait casting with all the thousands of situation specific lures and rods.

I guess I am more a fly rod fisherman or fly line angler than a "fly fisherman".

 

A thought on crossbows, they were a part of archery for ~2600 years (2 Chronicles 26) before cable and wheels showed up, so if cross bows aren't archery then neither are compound bows. It'd be OK with me if all archery hunters were limited to self bows. I don't think it will happen though, because so many pure archery people (ones that want to ban cross bows) like the purely artificial challenge of wheels and sights and releases that are part of the recently invented compounds.

[Mark Knapp 0]

 

 

. Casting and retrieving must be carried out in accordance with normal customs

and generally accepted practices. The major criterion in casting is that the weight of

the line must carry the fly rather than the weight of the fly carrying the line

I'll go along with that normal bit, it doesn't say "back cast" - which isn't really normal in all places.

I'm not all that religious about fishing, if you follow the laws; I don't care how you go about it. I really don't think using strike indicators is pure fly fishing, but it is widely accepted by modern anglers, so.. Some of those "nymph rigs" seem to have weights that would pull the line, especially if the line is ultralight.

It's funny kinda, I use a fly rod for all kinds of fishing not to increase the challenge or make the fishing more difficult, but rather to simplify things and make catching fish easier and more efficient. I guess if I wanted a complicated challenge I would take up bait casting with all the thousands of situation specific lures and rods.

 

 

For some reason, I couldn't find a reference to a "back cast" in the material I found today. I know I read it somewhere though, maybe as an example not necessarily a rule or regulation. Where ever it was, it did not exclude a spey cast or roll cast in the definitions of what is fly fishing. I will try to find it.

 

I agree with you about strike indicators. It's quite popular to use a little bobber as a strike indicator when drift fishing with beads up here. To me it's not really fly fishing either, to me it's just bobber fishing and boring. I don't really fault people for using a piece of yarn on a leader as a strike indicator, I just like to feel or sense the bite instead. I'm told I probably miss a heck of a lot of hits without the indicator. That's OK with me.

 

I also try to stay away from split shots, preferring to tie the fly with the correct weight for the circumstances.

OTOH a very well respected fly fishing guide up here, a friend of mine (recently guided for the world record arctic grayling) likes to say "What's the difference between a good fly fisherman and a great one?" answer "One more split shot"

 

 

 

To each his own religion.

[tjm 0]

Back on topic, I wonder if the UV resin would be better than CA for "hooking" the crickets and hoppers? Which would work best for mice?

[Mark Knapp 0]

Somewhere in my infantile stage as a fly fisher I read where the back cast was a pertinent aspect of what fly fishing is. It was only 6 years ago. Some things evolve and it's possible I had some out of date material. Many of the classic fly fishing manuals I have are no longer applicable for many reasons. I will keep looking though.

[vicente 0]

 

 

What constitutes "fly fishing" is strictly up to the authority that governs your water. Some states go by equipment being a "fly rod" and "fly reel"etc. and some go by the type of lure construction. I guess that IGFA only has governance over their contests and has zero legal bearing.

In MO if the lure is constructed of materials used for fly tying and that material is fastened to a single point hook then you are fly fishing regardless of other things like rod, reel, bobbers, sinkers, spinners etc.; jigs and spinner baits are flies if feathers are part of the dressing and a single hook is used. It is common to see jigs and bobbers used with fly rods and also to see spinning tackle used in fly-only waters.

 

Does that back cast rule of IFGA mean that spey casters can not record a fly caught fish? But a trolling fisher could?

I agree with all you've said. Certainly you would need to consult your jurisdiction.

 

The back cast rule in the IGFA includes spey casting and roll casting. Part of the wording in IGFA and Alaska regs includes wording similar to this; the line must carry the fly in the cast not the fly, lure or terminal gear pulling the line in the cast. I will look it up and post it here when I get a chance.

 

Everybody here has their own religion, my opinions are just that, my opinions. I'm somewhat of a purist, bait to me would defeat the purpose of using fly gear.

 

I fish with a fly to make it more challenging and exciting, I hunt with a bow for the same reason. It got too easy, (boring) for me to fish with conventional gear or hunt with a rifle. I could spend more time in the field before my limit was filled. I traded quantity for a higher quality experience. I assumed it was the same for all of us.

 

I would not impose my ideals on anyone else but I don't mind telling you what they are.

 

I say, do what you want as long as it's legal. To me, it's not fly fishing if it's not with a fly rod and a fly any more than hunting with a cross bow is bow hunting.

I do not consider cross bow hunting to be bow hunting either while it does have it's own challenges it is much more similar to a rifle or shotgun with a slug than a bow.

Tjm I don't consider a cross to be bow hunting because it is a pre-charged weapon unlike a compound bow that has to be drawn and held by the archer for the entirety of it's being able to shoot, if a cross bow is to be considered archery hunting we could also consider using an air gun that fires an arrow to be as well. While the draw on a compound and use of a trigger do make it easier in some ways they come with their own set of challenges, once drawn I almost have to fire an arrow even if I try to let it down the force of the bow once I get past let off often forces my trigger to release. with a cross bow the is no draw or the same need for exact form throughout the entire process of the actual shot that you have with either a compound or traditional bow.

 

Mark Knapp I do understand your quality vs quantity viewpoint it's largely why I started fishing here in my case though quantity is almost always going to be bad along with quality though so I fly fish because I enjoy the process more without the fish catching. Due to where you live even using only a fly rod and bow instead of a rifle I have very little doubt your quality and quantity are very likely to surpass most of us by a great extent no matter what gear we use.