Grub hooks for extended body dry flies

[FlorentineJohn 0]

Hi folks,

 

Some of you may be familiar with Agostino Roncallo's CDC flies (not only CDC, but he's best known for those.) See https://www.flydreamers.com/en/fly-tying/agostino-roncallo-u99378

 

Here's one of his flies, the Mirage, tied with one CDC feather: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp-37RH2MOc

 

 

He says he uses grub fly hooks.

 

J:son flies also use extended bodies, and unlike Roncallo, not just for mayflies - but they suggest an ultra-short dry fly hook, which they manufacture, for all their dry flies.

 

 

My questions are:

1. Are grub and caddis hooks the same?
2. Is there a hook that will work for most extended body flies: Roncallo's CDC, J:son, "regular" extended body flies? (Could you kindly provide examples?)

Finally, another (slightly unrelated) question, still about hooks: in Matching Major Eastern Hatches, Henry Ramsay calls for 2XS (short) wide-gap dry fly hooks such as the Tiemco 2488 when tying his CDC Adult Caddis. Do you think I can use regular-sized dry fly hooks instead, and just keep the body shorter (instead of buying more hooks)?

 

Thanks!

 

Confused in Connecticut

 

PS The e-book My CDC Flies by Roncallo is available for free here: Part 1, Part 2.

 

[flytire 0]

 

 

1. Are grub and caddis hooks the same?

 

yes

 

Do you think I can use regular-sized dry fly hooks instead, and just keep the body shorter (instead of buying more hooks)?

 

yes

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=CDC+Adult+Caddis&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwikjdfemcjhAhWFmVkKHRX8ABsQ_AUIDigB&biw=1600&bih=757

[Flicted 0]

You "can" use anything. Try it with different hooks until you get the look you want.

[Philly 0]

I use the 2488 for my dry caddis patterns, mainly the CDC and Elk. I picked up some Gamakatsu B10S Stinger hooks in size 12 and 14. Planned to tie some fry patterns on them, but I think I'll use them for some of the CDC and Elk I plan to tie.

[Sandan 0]

The Iwan-e-dun, an extended body mayfly is tied on a 2488.

[chugbug27 0]

Hey Florentine, that PDF "book" has a nice variety of good looking CDC patterns. Thanks for posting

[Poopdeck 0]

That is a nice bookmark. Thanks for including it in your post. Don't get wrapped around all minutia associated with hooks. I rarely use hooks that are specifically named in the different patterns. Just tie away.

[FIN-ITE 34 0]

If you are planning on using only CDC then I would suggest that you stay with a lighter weight hook. As had been suggested the Tiemco 2488 is a good choice with lesser expensive versions being Umpqua U201 and JS 510.

[fshng2 0]

Agree with what others have said regarding style hooks.

My rule of thumb is thin wire for floating and thicker wire otherwise. Length is less of a concern.

Thanks for posting Agostino Roncallo's patterns.

Very innovative and brilliant tyer. One noteworthy pattern is the Thorax with X of foam.

[WJG 0]

I am a big fan of this style hook. Grub hook, egg hook, caddis pupa, emergers, on and on, many names I like this styles' ability to hook and hold fish. Wide gape and the short curved shank seem to hook hard and not lever out for me. The Tiemco 2488 are great for dry/emergers and something like the 2457 sinks faster for my nymph attempts. Many patterns can be adapted to this hook style and they do look more correct in my introspective world.,

[Guest]

Hey Florentine, that PDF "book" has a nice variety of good looking CDC patterns. Thanks for posting

I'll second that. Thanks

[Crackaig 0]

The first detached body flies I came across were crane fly imitations. For some reason they were tied on long shank light wire hooks. Just the 1/4 of the shank immediately behind the eye was used, the rest just hung out the back of the thorax, serving no purpose I could see. As a result I reasoned like this. The steel of the hook is your biggest enemy when it comes to creating a fly that stays on the surface. I could use a shorter hook, with a shank length of only 1/4 the long shank hook. Having saved 3/4 of the hook shank in steel I could use a much heavier hook (better to play the fish with) yet still have less steel in the fly. For this reason I still tie those flies on a short shank hook.
The first time I came across using a grub hook for extended body flies was watching Oliver Edwards. He used them for his Mahican May. The advantages are two fold. The hook turns away from the body so you do not get the cocked up look to the body, Also they make a keel for the fly (so long as you have the hook point below the fly ).

These were really tied because someone told me I couldn't tie them. However they illustrate the advantage of a grub type hook for detached bodies.

Cheers,

C.

[FlorentineJohn 0]

Thank you all so much for your help! Glad to hear that grub and caddis hooks are the same - I don't need things to get even more complex. As to the hook, the TMC 2488 looks great!

[FlorentineJohn 0]

By the way, what would you say is the ratio of caddis/emerger hook to dry fly with emerger body? I imagine tying a size 12 (extended body included) dry fly on a size 12 hook would not make sense...

 

Thanks again.