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Fly Tying
Patriot

Knot Strength Query

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Little $.02 and perspective.... Trouting, bassing, etc. youd be surprised how little actual weight/pressure you are putting on leaders. You get into serious stuff things change. I made and tested leaders for my tarpon effort couple years ago using digital fish scales. Wear gloves! This pic, cant get video to work, is me lifting a 15# bucket of water with a 12wt reel, drag tight as possible on a 12wt rod. The drag slipped before the bucket lifted and had to hold the spool to get it up. Serious forces going on for just 15 #..... Lotta other issues on weldless eyes wear and tear on loops and knots. Capt Bobs posts and research helped a lot!

Davy knots way over rated. Id say 50% loss but tiny and quick. No place in the big world.

A5-FCDD0-D-E8-B2-4-F74-A683-586-A42-FBEE

Not as organized as the Capn and have some dropper leaders for red fish up here and some wire tippers for the toothy guys. Some I have the tested value. Ill pull 18-25# on most big stuff and write it on em. The black spool is kinda like Capt Bobs deal...come to far for chance/failure.

93-A07-FC0-58-E2-4617-A2-EA-AA8-F448-A6-

Also lotta factory welded loops soft lines cant take the loop bites. Need double,triple nail knots and make hard mono or braided mono loops to be safer. Problem is finding braided mono to make the loops?????

https://www.google.com/search?q=doubke%20nail%20not%20leader%20looos

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Here's a quick exercise for those wanting to learn to put max pressure on a big fish (once it settles down and quits cowboying around...). Take your big stick and tie off a leader to a fixed object about fifty or sixty feet away, then wind in all slack in your line and pull as hard as you can in the traditional upwards fashion... No matter how hard you're pulling there's not 3lbs pressure at the terminal end... you just can't apply more pressure than that by simply raising the rod.. (and that lack of real pressure means that you're absolutely not beating that big fish on the other end..).

 

Now let's do things differently.. point your rod directly at the terminal end (no bend in the rod at all...) then wind until you can't wind another inch on that reel (direct drive reels are the only ones that can do this properly...). Now that you have the rod pointing directly at the terminal end with as much pressure as you think you can apply without having the rod in play.... start pulling to the side while holding the reel handle so not one inch of line slips off the spool (and remember to keep that rod as much horizontal as possible...) to increase that pressure. Doing it this way you can apply nearly enough force to break a 20lb tippet... Believe it or not...

 

To round out this exercise of getting the line banjo tight - then pulling to the side.... do if for 30 minutes straight if you can... Most can't without training... I've actually known anglers who can beat a 100lb tarpon into giving up in only ten minutes using this technique. Of course you'll break off a lot of fish learning it...

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Nothing like the strait skinny from a professional. I am seriously contemplating next time I go to Ft Lauterdale to fish with my ExoticsGuy Im gonna charter CapnBob if at all possible! His knowledge and ability to convey stuff is amazing! My Bday is 21April....

Tie the fly with 80# bite tippet using a figure 8 loop knot. The nail knot around the shank prohibits free movement but both are very strong.

115-AB1-E6-1-F55-4-B3-D-8-DFB-7-AFEAED4-

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Patriot, I never tried the Palomar knot on tiny flies but I can tell you it holds very well on what I have used it on. Many times stronger than, or maybe less abrasive to itself, than standard clinch or trilene knots. It works well. So I also do loops. And by the way, I mentioned I use the double surgeon knot for leader to tippet but it dawned on me that I switched to loop to loop there and back at the fly line in the last couple of years..

 

On another note about the size 24 midges. I could tie them I just don't. Yes I too would need to us a magnifier but the real issue is around here there are two prolific ponds that have midges that small and they don't have good access.. And several others where they run more in the 18-20 size, even 16 in one and easier to wade with great fishing and a boat launch area if I want to use the boat. So there is more to it than just the flies being small. And in Maine where I really prefer to fish anyway, I don't use midges at all.

 

I'll end here, you're really getting a bunch of great information in this thread !!

 

Dave, thanks for your comments. I will indeed take a look at the Palomar knot.

 

I hear you on the midge tying. No point in tying them if your fish don't feed on them. In the San Juan River where I fish, that is the predominant food source for these bow's and browns.

 

And, yes, this thread in becoming a gold mine of knot information.

 

I appreciate your help.

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