Why not thinned shoe goo?

[chugbug27 0]

Well, my zap a gap went dry (again) and I'm going to be tying some delicate material bodies (biot and stripped herl). Everybody on the tube seems to use ca glue only... Any reason other than dry time not to use thinned shoe goo or un-thinned head cement over the thread base instead of ca glue? maybe even shhn? I.e., will it still hold the materials to the shank well enough? I should think so, but I'd prefer not to find out on the stream, which in my case will be a while. Thanks in advance...

[mikechell 0]

Two reasons I can think of:  Drying time and solvents making dyed colors bleed.

Shoe Goo is a good glue ... but nail polishes, once dry, aren't.  They become too brittle and ANY flex in the materials will crack and/or break it.  If there's no flexing, then it'll work.  All this is my experiences ... not definitive absolutes.

[steve sparkie 0]

hi try flyrite  natural varnish I have used it for years you don't need to thin it and it dries quite quick and leaves a strong finish then coat with salley hansons for durability hope this helps     kind regards Steve

[Mark Knapp 0]

Of course many of us use Sally Hanson and she's very good for heads and wing cases. It absorbs very well for holding heads together.

Shoe Goo comes in a squeeze tube and it does thicken after time into an unusable glob. It seems to me you would have to squeeze it out into a bottle and then mix it. It does stay flexible for a long time and it's very tough.

I think the solution for you would be just tie more flies before your Zap get hard. 😁

Have you tried keeping your Zap a Gap in the beer cooler in your fly tying room. CA glue stays good longer if you keep it in the fridge between uses. We use a lot of it and sell it in my store.

[flytire 0]

tie the biot and stripped peacock herl on a long shank hook

apply head cement to the hook shank and and wrap each body material and let dry

run a fingernail over each one to check on durability

or

reverse wrap each body material with fine monofilament sewing thread or fine gols/silver wire

experiment

[tjm 0]

Stripped peacock herl was used a long time before either Shoe goo or CA was invented, I have never used either for that  but one or more of my books recommended a coat of "head cement"/ "lacquer" also known as dime store/drug store fingernail polish over the quill body, if the herl was soaked to make it usable,  wait for it to dry before applying the lacquer.  I have found Sally Hansen dries too hard for general use on my flies. The polish from Dollar Tree is perfect. If the herl was used dry a coat of wet lacquer under the quill will only make it more durable.

As an "I never did this but think it might work" you can apply the UV resin over a quill body and zap it hard, I think that would make anything durable.

Just because,  I searched "Quill Gordon" and this article suggests coating the body with "Dave's Flexament"  so you were spot on with the Shoo Goo! http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/fotw/041700fotw.php

[TSMcDougald 0]

I use the UV resin on my herl bodied flies and have no problems with durability.

[DarrellP 0]

AK Best uses lacquer made for wood.  I use Sally's and like it too.  I really like Griffen's head cement for heads.  I wrap herl on thread and then rib it with wire in the opposite direction on Peacock herl  bodies. I have not glued under the herl much. Also, herl on the eye is much stronger than strung herl, in my experience.

[chugbug27 0]

Thanks all. Very helpful.

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

Put simply "head cement" in all its variations isn't a glue... and doesn't perform like glue.... not at all.  Years and years ago I switched to CA (preferring the inexpensive thin Krazy Glue that you can buy anywhere...).  Way back when I was teaching saltwater fly tying down here in paradise the only trouble my students ran into was when they tried to use too much of the stuff (which will definitely cause problems).  The solution was to get them to squeeze out a tiny drop or just until you could see the first sign of glue on the tip of that plastic tube - then touch the area where you wanted stuff to stay secured... 

I even use it as a thread sealer to prep a thread head to have eyes painted on it.  Yes, CA glues will kick off on you and harden up in the tube if you're an occasional tyer but that's a small problem when the stuff is readily available and usually less than $3 a tube.  I used to buy it by the box (12 or 10 tubes per box) back when I was tying at the 10 to 15 dozen flies each week (for some years) but as soon as I tapered off and slowed down I found that the last two or three tubes would have kicked off and hardened - before I could use them so I went back to buying only what was needed... Since every drug store and grocery store carries Krazy Glue ( the original formula) keeping it on hand does not require a trip to the local fly shop or an internet purchase (and it's lots cheaper as well...).

[petelangevin 0]

I have bottles of shhn that are almost 20 years old and are still good.   I’ve been searching for a good nitro-cellulose lacquer locally but have not had luck,   Thinking of hitting a rockler woodworking supply as the big box places dont carry the good stuff. 

[Gene L 0]

Isn't that's what Fkexament is?  

[SilverCreek 0]

Dave's Flexament is a form of dilute urethane adhesive. Aquaseal thinned with toluol/toluene will duplicate Dave's Flexament.

Cotol 240, the thinner for Aquaseal is mainly Toluene as seen in this MSDS for Cotol 240. Toluene is the major ingredient (99.25%) in Cotol-240 and the amount of dibutyltin dilaurate is 0.75%.

http://www.nrs.com/global/msds/MSDS 2293 Cotol.pdf

Shoe Goo is also urethane but Aquaseal is better because it is clear and not a tan color.

 

[mikechell 0]

For a larger bottle of superglue ... you can buy a bottle of "finger" nail glue at Dollar Tree.  It's regular CA, but it's bottled for sticking false nails on.

[chugbug27 0]

4 minutes ago, mikechell said:

"finger" nail glue at Dollar Tree

Nice find