haziz 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2020 I ordered "extra fine" dry fly dubbing online, but until it arrives, can I use rabbit dubbing in the meantime. I would use it very sparingly. My understanding is that the rabbit dubbing would take on water and may end up sinking the fly, but I am too impatient to wait for the usual dry fly dubbing to arrive. Any issues with using the rabbit dubbing in the meantime? This is for my own personal use, obviously. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytire 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2020 try it and report back on how it fished Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rockworm 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, flytire said: try it and report back on how it fished Tye up a handful and treat half with a good floatant. Then compare their floatability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niveker 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2020 There are some rabbit hair dubbings that are marketed as dry fly dubbings, its usually the fineness vs the courseness of the material that makes the big difference between dry and nymph dubbings. You can use it, but as others said, treat it with floatant. It will be harder to dry out than the superfine synthetic dubbings, so you may have to change flies more often. Usually, the 'float' in a dry fly is provided by the hackle, not the dubbing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redietz 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2020 If you're using a natural dubbing material, and it doesn't say otherwise, chances are it's rabbit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilverCreek 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2020 Rabbit is excellent for dubbing. Gary Borger and I used to dye sections of white rabbit pelt with Rit dye and then mix the colors to get the exact shade we wanted. But you can use natural wild rabbit pelts undyed. Rabbit, mink, muskrat, weasel, etc have two kind of hair/fur. They have long hair which are called "guard hairs" and they have the very fine furn next to the skin that is called "under fur." Here is a close up of rabbit fur. The long hair you are seeing are the guard hairs. There is soft underfur next to the skin (seen in the lower right of the photo where the guard hairs are pulled apart) which is what keeps the rabbit warm in winter. The guard hairs keep the snow and water away from the underfur, For dry fly dubbing, you want only the fine under fur. For a right handed tier, grab some fur with the thumb and index finger of your left hand and cut both the guard hairs and underfur and from the skin. Then use your right hand to pull out the underfur, and continue holding the guard hairs with your left hand. Now you have only the underfur and you can use it to dub the dry fly bodies. For nymphs, you cut off the fur and mix the guard hairs with the underfur so you get more of a "spiky" dubbing that will have the rougher surface of a nymph. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve sparkie 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2020 Hi tie it very spares and dress it with floatant the other method is to try 4 ply acrylic baby wool = polyester see what colours you can get from your local craft or sewing shop to get the best results draw the wool across a shut knife blade to fray the fibres into rubbing then dub it to the thread to get the right taper in your flies body then dress with floatant it should be a lot more buoyant than rabbit fur hope this helps Kind regards Steve 😉 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilverCreek 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2020 Steve, There actually is very little difference in the specific gravity of polyester and natural fibers. In practice, I agree that polyester "superfine" dubbing seems to be better for dry flies. It is so much easier than dyeing rabbit fur. However, I think it is the fact that polyester microfiber dubbing is thinner than the animal fibers that makes it seem to be more "buoyant." It reality, for identical thickness of material, natural fibers are more buoyant and weigh less. http://mytextilenotes.blogspot.com/2008/12/specific-gravity-of-fibres.html Polyester=1.38 Alpaca=1.31 Angora=1.10 Camel hair=1.31 Cashmere=1.31 Mink=1.26 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
umik1953 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2020 Polypropylene=0.91 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Poopdeck 0 Report post Posted July 22, 2020 I like keeping things simple. I just use what ever dubbing is in the color and texture that I'm looking for. Couldn't tell you if I use rabbit, muskrat, beaver or whatever. I can tell you if I used grey, green, tan, yellow, etc... don't buy the fly tying hype, use what ever dubbing you like the color and texture of. I coat my dries with floatant. My flies float without regard to the specific dubbing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilverCreek 0 Report post Posted July 22, 2020 1 hour ago, umik1953 said: Polypropylene=0.91 That is excellent. I just checked the superfine dubbing I use and it doesn't say what it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fshng2 0 Report post Posted July 22, 2020 Specific Gravity of other textile fibers. Just a few comments on textile fibers that work for me. Polyester works great for dubbing. It binds well to itself or when mixed with natural fibers. Aunt Lydia's rug yarn (Polyester) sparkles in the sunlight which I feel makes the fish want to take a closer look. Poly Yarn (Polypropylene) is good for dry fly wings, posts, and has a SG of .90 which makes it light weight and floats. https://www.madriveroutfitters.com/p-534-polypropylene-yarn.aspx As an added bonus neither of the two above materials will hold water. Trilobal Nylons also sparkle in the sunlight and are readily available. Textile Fibers Fiber densities in g/cm3 Commercial name Cotton 1.55 Raw Cotton 1.54 Mercerized Flax 1.50 Jute 1.50 Wool 1.30 No brand Silk 1.33 Natural Silk 1.60 Weighted Silk 1.32 Tussah Polyester 1.22 Kodel, vestan Polyester 1.38 Teryleen, Dacron Viscose 1.53 Cuprammonium 1.53 Polyurethane 1.15 Lycra Polypropylene 0.90 Meraklon Polyethylene 0.92 Courlene Polyethylene 0.95 Courlene X3 Nylon 6 1.13 Perlon Nylon 66 1.14 Tri-nylon Acrylic 1.14-1.17 Orlon (staple/filament) Polyvinyl alcohol 1.30 Kuralon, vinal https://fashion2apparel.blogspot.com/2016/12/important-textile-fibers-densities.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redietz 0 Report post Posted July 23, 2020 On 7/21/2020 at 4:35 PM, SilverCreek said: Steve, There actually is very little difference in the specific gravity of polyester and natural fibers. In practice, I agree that polyester "superfine" dubbing seems to be better for dry flies. It is so much easier than dyeing rabbit fur. Specific gravity is not really the issue. Rabbit seems to get water logged very easily. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tidewaterfly 0 Report post Posted July 24, 2020 23 hours ago, redietz said: Specific gravity is not really the issue. Rabbit seems to get water logged very easily. I love using rabbit & other natural fibers, and agree here, that rabbit will absorb water readily. I don't use it for tying dry flies. Used to be the natural furs that were used for dry fly bodies were from "water" animals, such as mink, beaver or muskrat. They were not the only fur's used, but these all have a higher amount of natural oils that repeal water. However, the colors were limited to the natural, so in order to obtain other colors, they had to be bleached & dyed, or just dyed over the natural color, and that removes a lot of the natural oils. The biggest advantage to the finer synthetic dry fly dubbing is that they also don't readily absorb water. You can use anything you like, and yes, the hackle is what floats the fly on flies that use hackle, but having a body material that also doesn't absorb water certainly aids in how well & how long a fly might float. As long as you use a good floatant on the fly, you can cause any body material to not absorb much water, but it does certainly help the situation if the material doesn't absorb much to begin with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Hat 0 Report post Posted July 28, 2020 I will second both of the 2 previous comments. Absorbancy is the real issue. A dry fly floats because of non absorbent characteristics and the amount of surface area of the pattern is in contact with the water's surface. Once a material becomes water logged it binds with the water/air interface and breaks through the water's surface. Then the weight of the hook and materials will slowly sink the fly. Finer is not always better for keeping a fly on the surface. Hackle works because it spreads out the foot print of the pattern on the water's surface. We use "dry fly" hackle because it is less absorbent than gamebird or most natural hen hackle. A scraggly dubbing will help to spread the footprint as well and with larger interstitial spaces trapping air it will greatly help in floatation. A scraggly hare dubbing made of guard hairs will float the pattern better than the underfur tightly dubbed. Once either gets water-logged it won't matter much. Most contemporary dry fly dubbing is synthetic because it does not absorb water well and it is fine because fly tyers want something that dubs easily and provides perfectly shaped bodies on their dry flies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites