Respect?

[Mark Knapp 0]

Respect for fish, respect for other fisherman and respect for other forum members.

The subject comes up all the time on this site. More times than not the thread winds up being deleted because the conversation turns into a heated argument before we get to talk about it much.

These are just my opinions and should be taken for just that, one mans opinion.

I hope that we can talk about these things without it blowing up into a "thing". Please no name calling or insults. I think we can disagree (if we disagree) without insulting each other. I have disagreed, at times, with many people on here but I "like" and respect all of you.

I hope this goes well.

What does "Respect for fish" mean? I think respect for fish is simply treating them as humanely as possible. I think, if we are going to catch them we need to inflict as little pain and suffering on them as possible. Weather they are plentiful or scarce, a tough species or delicate, for the table or to be released.

Respect for other fisherman is easy. Most of us agree that it means not encroaching on another's fishing spot. But wait "How close is too close?" I think, if you have to ask yourself "Am I too close", you may be too close.

I would add a couple of other things to this category. I am always as quiet as possible when I am in the woods and on the water. I know no one wants to hear how happy I am to catch a fish.

I always motor down when passing someone else in my boat.

I always try to leave the woods or water cleaner than I found it.

These are my thoughts, I'd be happy to hear yours.

 

[mikemac1 0]

Mark,

I’d add one more category for respect:  Respect regulations and laws.  One of the downsides of living and fishing in SW Montana  is the popularity of our fisheries which attracts a lot of out-of-state anglers during the summer.  Our stream access laws are great but too many non-resident anglers either don’t understand them or think they don’t apply to them.  I am always incensed (and I make my feelings known) when I encounter anglers who have obviously trespassed on private land to access the river.  They usually  express ignorance and are apologetic, but the damage has already been done.  You are not going to find a warden or sheriff patrolling the river and occasionally a ranch hand will confront a trespasser, but the real damage is the attitudes of the landowners.  And when access is discussed, landowners whose gates have been left open, fences damaged or land littered are usually not on the side of the angler.  We cannot tolerate anglers who don’t show respect for regulations and laws.

[TIER 0]

3 hours ago, Mark Knapp said:

I always motor down when passing someone else in my boat.

I was the people that ripped down the clearwater were like that.

[Landon P 0]

I completely agree with the regulations! Lost a good friend to day because we fished together. We were catching many fish and he ended up with more that five on HIS stringer alone. 

[Pbass 0]

I am blessed to be able to fish mid week. I try to find a place to be alone. If I am on a river and can see other people I personally need to go deeper into the woods. That is what I try to provide others with as well. I try to stay out of sight of other folks fishing.  More of a personal need than respect I suppose. 

We still have a lot of open space here and you can often be the only boat on a lake. I am sure my kids won't see that for too much longer. I take what you said seriously,  simple things like Leaving the woods cleaner than you found it and properly caring for wildlife/fish you encounter are tremendously important. 

I would also like to add be prepared when you go out into the woods or on the water. I spent 4 years with Search and Rescue. I believe that part of respect is remembering that the decisions you make can result in situations that cost lives. 

mikemac1 I totally agree with you.  Follow the laws.

Good topic. Good reminders

Thanks

[mikechell 0]

4 hours ago, Mark Knapp said:

1)  "Respect for fish" 

2) Respect for other fisherman ...  "Am I too close" ...

3) quiet as possible 

4) I always motor down when passing someone else in my boat.

5) I always try to leave the woods or water cleaner than I found it.

1) Ah ... I'm all for treating the fish I catch humanely.  But if I give it a three foot toss to the water instead of gently lowering it in, I don't think it's any worse for wear.  All the fishing I do, I RARELY see fish floating with no visible signs of damage.  Usually it's a gill hooked or gut hooked fish that was killed during the hook removal.  But then, I don't let the fish run for long periods of time.  I use no less than 10 pound test tippets, so I can bring the fish to hand quickly enough to not exhaust it.  I think playing a fish until it rolls over at your side is more inhumane than flipping it back in the water.

2)  If your cast can overlap their cast, you ARE too close.  When someone gets that close to me, I make sure to cast over their line, every cast.  They get the hint pretty quickly.

3)  and 4)  Shut up!  As you say, Mark, no one cares if you're loudly proclaiming your catches.  More likely, they're hoping it breaks off or you fall in .. any thing to shut you up.  And muffle your engine if possible.  I HATE airboats.  Not just because the operators generally run with no consideration for others, but they all seem to think straight pipes are "cool" or something.

5)  As Yoda says, "No!  Do, or do not. There is no "try.'"  ALWAYS take your trash with you.  Leave no signs you were ever there.

I'm not religious ... I don't believe.  But there is one GREAT lesson in the Bible.  "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."  It pertains to every single thing you do outside your own house.

[Justin H 0]

I agree entirely Mark, and I truly wish there were more people like you out there.

Nothing upsets me more than finding trash on the bank, hearing loud music and shouting from around the next bend, or worst of all when someone begins throwing their lure/bait practically at your feet. Apart from noise, wastefulness and laziness bother me most. I find enough lures every year that if I fixed them up and sold them I would have a small fortune. Most are snagged within easy reach in trees, and some are brand new just lying on the shore--even in the original packaging sometimes. I understand of course that losing lures/flies happens, but it is the things that are left out of laziness and wastefulness that bother me. Just a few weeks ago I found a kayak paddle laying on the trail when I was out on a run. I brought it home and it still had the sticker on it: $49.99. It really astounds me sometimes.

I used to be angry at these people, but now it just makes me sad, and I only hope they will understand one day to respect what is given to us. There is something profound in the quiet and the natural way of things, but when people trash a place or scream and make a racket it loses its magic.

I am blessed to live within an easy walk of a nice little lake that is full of bass and sunfish, but in recent years it has been "discovered" and subsequently trashed. Every so often I go there and the fishing is still good, but after a half hour I almost always walk home, dejected, after filling my backpack with other people's trash. It is just hard to enjoy fishing like that.

In the end, I believe that we are the "guests" out there on the water and in the woods, and it is our responsibility to make our presence and impact as minimal as possible, both on the natural elements and on the other people trying to enjoy the outdoors. And looping back to mikemac's thoughts, regulations are generally in place to ensure we are good "guests", so I certainly agree that a big part of respect is knowing and following these rules.

[cphubert 0]

After reading the post I had to give it time to digest.

Respect for fish, other fishermen, and other members of the forum.

I agree Mark, fish should be treated humanly released or dispatched quickly, no laws violated. I have been on other forums where you would think it is illegal to eat a fish one caught, use barbed hooks, or not fish with anything other than a $900 dollar rod.

I tell people not to confuse solitude with loneness as I preferer to fish alone most of the time. Not saying I only fish by myself or don't want to talk to you if I see you,  I will normally be courteous enough to fish through a pool and allow you to fish it also (habits learned from salmon fishing etiquette with a group of old men)

Boats and operators … well I can not tell you how many times I have been targeted by power boats at higher speeds, some appeared intentional, while paddling a canoe. I am not talking about paddling in a channel, it is usually younger operators(not alone) laughing to see if they can swamp or scare the paddler. 

I usually have a trash bag in my equipment and find I at times carry out more than I carry in - people are usually pigs. cans nipper bottles and junk discarded.

Members of the forum. I enjoy this forum not a huge poster (620ish in ten years) but this is the my most active internet site. I have never been nor will I ever be on social media. I like the no politics rule but this country and we as a people are changing. The saying "no two watches read the same, but we only believe are own watches time" has never been truer. This forum has kept a good standard, our sister forum the classic site did not always do so well and now it is gone. This is a credit to the moderators but we must as members keep that in mind. This forum is a unique site to learn and express most things from accomplishments to frustration and failure, to learn, to mentor, to see a new tier develop, to teach a old dog new tricks. Will if you read this know that this forum is more than just fly tying.

[TSMcDougald 0]

24 minutes ago, cphubert said:

After reading the post I had to give it time to digest.

Respect for fish, other fishermen, and other members of the forum.

I agree Mark, fish should be treated humanly released or dispatched quickly, no laws violated. I have been on other forums where you would think it is illegal to eat a fish one caught, use barbed hooks, or not fish with anything other than a $900 dollar rod.

I tell people not to confuse solitude with loneness as I preferer to fish alone most of the time. Not saying I only fish by myself or don't want to talk to you if I see you,  I will normally be courteous enough to fish through a pool and allow you to fish it also (habits learned from salmon fishing etiquette with a group of old men)

Boats and operators … well I can not tell you how many times I have been targeted by power boats at higher speeds, some appeared intentional, while paddling a canoe. I am not talking about paddling in a channel, it is usually younger operators(not alone) laughing to see if they can swamp or scare the paddler. 

I usually have a trash bag in my equipment and find I at times carry out more than I carry in - people are usually pigs. cans nipper bottles and junk discarded.

Members of the forum. I enjoy this forum not a huge poster (620ish in ten years) but this is the my most active internet site. I have never been nor will I ever be on social media. I like the no politics rule but this country and we as a people are changing. The saying "no two watches read the same, but we only believe are own watches time" has never been truer. This forum has kept a good standard, our sister forum the classic site did not always do so well and now it is gone. This is a credit to the moderators but we must as members keep that in mind. This forum is a unique site to learn and express most things from accomplishments to frustration and failure, to learn, to mentor, to see a new tier develop, to teach a old dog new tricks. Will if you read this know that this forum is more than just fly tying.

Well said!

[Rocco 0]

Noise pollution.

This will fall on deaf ears but I really dislike it when guys do their own video-like commentary on a fish take and fight -- usually accompanied by yahoos ,hoops,  and occasional expletives. 

 Yeah, its mainly the backward hat brigade and the enthusiasm of youth but after all it is not a mass sporting event. (There is also IMO some insidious influence at work from videos of competitive bass fishing that in recent years feature motor mouth 'stars'. 

And from my side of 50 yoa this din encroaches on my focus, enjoyment,  and ever diminishing patience with the human race. 

Rocco

 

[Jacks Grampa 0]

16 hours ago, mikemac1 said:

Mark,

I’d add one more category for respect:  Respect regulations and laws.  One of the downsides of living and fishing in SW Montana  is the popularity of our fisheries which attracts a lot of out-of-state anglers during the summer.  Our stream access laws are great but too many non-resident anglers either don’t understand them or think they don’t apply to them.  I am always incensed (and I make my feelings known) when I encounter anglers who have obviously trespassed on private land to access the river.  They usually  express ignorance and are apologetic, but the damage has already been done.  You are not going to find a warden or sheriff patrolling the river and occasionally a ranch hand will confront a trespasser, but the real damage is the attitudes of the landowners.  And when access is discussed, landowners whose gates have been left open, fences damaged or land littered are usually not on the side of the angler.  We cannot tolerate anglers who don’t show respect for regulations and laws.

Well said. I have friends with some land along both sides of Sourdough Creek and they've had to put boulders blocking a trail to the creek to keep people from driving through their property to get to the creek. We had to cancel our June trip to Bozeman for the first time in nearly 40 years. I sure miss the fishing and breakfast at the Western.

[Mark Knapp 0]

20 hours ago, mikemac1 said:

Mark,

I’d add one more category for respect:  Respect regulations and laws.  One of the downsides of living and fishing in SW Montana  is the popularity of our fisheries which attracts a lot of out-of-state anglers during the summer.  Our stream access laws are great but too many non-resident anglers either don’t understand them or think they don’t apply to them.  I am always incensed (and I make my feelings known) when I encounter anglers who have obviously trespassed on private land to access the river.  They usually  express ignorance and are apologetic, but the damage has already been done.  You are not going to find a warden or sheriff patrolling the river and occasionally a ranch hand will confront a trespasser, but the real damage is the attitudes of the landowners.  And when access is discussed, landowners whose gates have been left open, fences damaged or land littered are usually not on the side of the angler.  We cannot tolerate anglers who don’t show respect for regulations and laws.

I agree with you in every way. But wow , you write big.

[Mark Knapp 0]

Thanks, everybody, for your comments.

I think there are no solid lines to cross here. Everyone has to decide for themselves where acceptable levels are, and make those choices for ourselves. At the same time, our actions are shaped by society, and should be.

Somewhere between "No fishing at all" and dragging a live shark behind a boat at high speed, for fifteen minutes, lie our acceptable levels of treatment for the fish we catch.

For some of us, the line is at barbless hooks, for some of us it's at single hooks. For some of us it's at wanton waste. We all get to choose for ourselves where that line is but I think that if people are continually telling you that the way you are doing it is not good for fish, you should probably think about it a little bit. In some cases those lines are drawn by laws and regulations. It's important to understand that just because it's legal, it still may not be acceptable in the eyes of the majority.

I think the best thing about forums like this is learning from each other and if you aren't learning you might be just wasting your time.

As for me, I have learned a lot here and I continue to learn everyday. At the very least this site has helped make me a much better tier. More importantly it has helped me reconsider what I'm willing to do to a fish in order to catch it, photograph it or video it.

[samsonboi 0]

Would add one thing to respect fish- specific guidelines. Barbless (or crushed barbs) or at the very least micro barbed hooks on any fish you intend to release. @TIER If you're going to release them, keep them IN THE WATER and don't use a coarse-holed knotted net either. Don't lift them out of the water and don't squeeze them.

 

Even if you're keeping fish, you don't want to cause unnecessary pain. Respect them and dispatch them humanely with a clean, well-placed blow from a "priest" or well-directed force instantly breaking their neck, just like you would want to do with an accurate bullet (or shotgun blast) if you were hunting.

Remember that even if you don't care about the fishes' suffering (!) a lot of stress (from suffocation and/or extreme or continuous pain, of course) will build up toxins in the flesh. They won't hurt you, but they will make the fish taste bad.

[Landon P 0]

33 minutes ago, samsonboi said:

Would add one thing to respect fish- specific guidelines. Barbless (or crushed barbs) or at the very least micro barbed hooks on any fish you intend to release. @TIER If you're going to release them, keep them IN THE WATER and don't use a coarse-holed knotted net either. Don't lift them out of the water and don't squeeze them.

 

Even if you're keeping fish, you don't want to cause unnecessary pain. Respect them and dispatch them humanely with a clean, well-placed blow from a "priest" or well-directed force instantly breaking their neck, just like you would want to do with an accurate bullet (or shotgun blast) if you were hunting.

Remember that even if you don't care about the fishes' suffering (!) a lot of stress (from suffocation and/or extreme or continuous pain, of course) will build up toxins in the flesh. They won't hurt you, but they will make the fish taste bad.

+1 thank you for saying what everyone was thinking!