Respect?

[niveker 0]

37 minutes ago, DFoster said:

"I fish this river 300 days per year, do you want some advice"? 

That sounds like Dan Trela.  I have met him in passing a few times, but not on the Swift.  Well known (locally anyway) for his Wicked Pissah fly and his custom rods.   

Unfortunately, this time of year and especially this summer, because of the heat and lack of rain, the Swift is the only game in town for trout, but the Rt 9 area is wayyyyyyy to crowded for me and I haven't been above Rt 9 in probably 15 years, though I am only 10 minutes from it.  I haunt the lower sections, at least once a week.  When conditions are better, I will hit the smaller creeks that I prefer, where I never run into people. 

I like solitude when fishing and seek out areas that offer it, but I am not averse to striking up a conversation when I meet any other fisherman (spin or fly) on the river, and often stop and chat for minute or two if the other is willing.  If they ask, I tell them what I'm catching them on, I'll even give them a fly or two.  I do find it annoying when someone jumps in the river next to me, and I avoid doing it to other fishermen.  By 'next to me' I mean 100 yards or so, depending on how the river runs.  When someone does park next to me, I move to another spot.  Getting pissed off or doing a tit for tat is not my idea of a good day of fishing, and I'm not so pool a fisherman that I can't find fish in another spot.  If a fisherman stops and talks to me while fishing a particular spot for bit, I usually offer up my spot, especially if I've been there for a bit.  As for respect for fish, each one I catch  I hope to catch again, so they get treated gently and put back.  I use barbless hooks, upgraded to a rubber net, never put them on the ground, wet my hands if I have to grab them, keep play to a minimum.  That said, I don't look down on those who keep their catch, as long as its within the regs.  We're both exercising our rights, his to keep and mine to release; neither my right nor his right takes precedence.  

As for leaving trash, well, that one I'll never understand, its akin to the returning shopping carts and the capacity to self govern theory.      

[Mark Knapp 0]

1 hour ago, DFoster said:

 "I fish this river 300 days per year, do you want some advice"? 

Wait, you didn't tell us what the advise was.

I do stop and chat when I come up to someone else but I don't fish, I chat for a while and move on. I find it hard to fish and chat, especially fly fish, because I like to look at people when I talk to them, and I guess I talk with my hands a lot. That, and I don't want to encroach. I don't mind telling people what the hot fly is or where we did well. Fortunately when I'm ready to be by myself again, there's plenty of room to do that in most of Alaska.

I don't spend very much time on high pressure fisheries. I like to fish for dumb fish, not the smart ones. There's plenty of dumb fish in the sea, ya just gotta go to the right "sea".

[DFoster 0]

1 hour ago, niveker said:

That sounds like Dan Trela.  I have met him in passing a few times, but not on the Swift.  Well known (locally anyway) for his Wicked Pissah fly and his custom rods.   

Unfortunately, this time of year and especially this summer, because of the heat and lack of rain, the Swift is the only game in town for trout, but the Rt 9 area is wayyyyyyy to crowded for me and I haven't been above Rt 9 in probably 15 years, though I am only 10 minutes from it.  I haunt the lower sections, at least once a week.  When conditions are better, I will hit the smaller creeks that I prefer, where I never run into people. 

I

 

The name sounds correct- this was 7 or so years back so I'm not 100%.  On the Swift I stay away from the Y pool and almost always fish West of 9 usually in the faster shallow stuff everyone tends to pass by on their way to the pipe.  Trout at this time are tough but there are options though not without there own unique issues.  The Deerfield fishes great if you don't mind the drive and dealing with the kayak hatches.  The Quinapoxet and Still Water hold trout year round in the deeper holes but you got to hike to get to them.  The pools right at the parking lot are generally fished out. The Miller's and East branch of the Swift are fished year round as well.   I too prefer and most often fish the people free smaller streams when conditions allow.

[DFoster 0]

19 minutes ago, Mark Knapp said:

Wait, you didn't tell us what the advise was.

 

His advise was "For Rainbows on this river fish small, nothing big". " And by small I mean #22-#32".  "Dead drift on a high stick/ short line and wade with as little movement as possible".  He is correct, for Rainbows on that river small dark color nymphs will usually out produce any thing else you can throw.   Because of the small tippets and hooks required it's pretty challenging to land a large Rainbow once you hook them.  You have to play the fish to tire him enough not to break a 7X at the net but not to the point of exhaustion.  I'm happy to say  as a rule the anglers on that river show a lot of respect to the trout and use as much time as necessary to release a tired fish.   It's common to see someone gently holding a fish in the current until they oxygenate and kick out of the hand.   Because its really easy to break a fish off on the light tippets almost everyone you talk too is barb less.

The river is probably the best Brook Trout fishery in our state so when I'm there I'm fishing for Brook trout.  I'll be using #14-#18 but I still catch a fair amount of Rainbows on them.  Just not as many as the nymphing guys.  If I'm targeting Rainbows specifically I'll go down to #18-#22. 

I'm guessing fishing a #28 probably sounds crazy to a guy from Alaska where the Rainbows eat adult mice?

[niveker 0]

23 minutes ago, DFoster said:

On the Swift I stay away from the Y pool and almost always fish West of 9 usually in the faster shallow stuff everyone tends to pass by on their way to the pipe.

I almost always hit the Bondsville section, between and below the dams.  It can get a bit warm on occasional though, if they don't keep the flow up, then I'll head north.

I have not fished the Deerfield in years, though my brother and I always talk about driving out there 'next time', same with the other three, as I used to live further east.  I do get out to the EB of the Swift, conditions permitting, but it too dries up and heats up in the summer.  I have never come across another person fishing there.   I guess I like the convenience of the Swift, 3-4 hours early on a weekend morn, and still home in time to accomplish something around the house to keep the peace.     

[Mark Knapp 0]

47 minutes ago, DFoster said:

I'm guessing fishing a #28 probably sounds crazy to a guy from Alaska where the Rainbows eat adult mice?

I almost never tie or fish smaller than 16. I did tie up a few 28s once just for the fun and challenge of it. I use them in high mountain streams when the grayling are very small (6-8 inches), but honestly larger flies work much better there because the grayling are very hungry, (they survive by eating pollen for part of the year) and they will eat almost anything they can fit in their mouths.

For the most part, 10s and 12s are the smallest I "need" to go.

[DFoster 0]

17 hours ago, niveker said:

 I guess I like the convenience of the Swift, 3-4 hours early on a weekend morn, and still home in time to accomplish something around the house to keep the peace.     

Same here, there's always peace that needs keeping and that usually means getting back by noon to "accomplish something" Lol.   Unfortunately the Swift is a 50 minute ride for me so it's always a choice of less time on a better river or more time on a lesser river.  You're lucky to have it so close.   I can get to the Still Water and Quinapoxet in 25 minutes but often I just hit the local spots for Fall Fish.

[WJG 0]

I live my life with the principle of respect being upper most.  I strive to be respectful in all situations and also unabashedly demand respect from others.  Respect for the environment is important.  A grown person, too lazy to carry out their trash is an example of ignorance or the selfishness that seems to be more pervasive now.  Where I live, if I can see you, you are too close for fishing on this stream.  Certainly do not start in the pool I am fishing.  I will always stand back and often offer to let others fish thru.  Politely explaining/educating that they are spooking the fish I have been working and they won't see as they wade thru.   They get out and go around or u turn next time.   

Actually, the only reason I responded to Mark's query is the fish handling of the holier than thou C&R (or ordinary) crowd that have to take a photo of every fish. Sure, there is much advise on how to do this with minimal harm, and most are keeping up with what style is acceptable on the net today so as not to be sh1t on by the keyboard warriors.  My question is why do you need a photo of every fish?  These memories do also exist without a digital version.   

[Landon P 0]

I also think that respect on the water is NOT pulling your kayak right up to mine and yelling at me for fishing a dock!

[mikechell 0]

4 hours ago, WJG said:

why do you need a photo of every fish?  These memories do also exist without a digital version.   

Maybe for you ... not for everybody.  My memory has ALWAYS been bad.  I have a good memory of about 10% of my childhood. A vague memory of, maybe 20% more.  The rest is gone.  I can remember the faces of almost every student I've ever had, but I cannot remember the names of any.

I can remember some of the fish I've caught ... but not the majority.  I video my fishing trips so that I can revisit the fishing when I can't get out there.

[Mark Knapp 0]

I originally started this post because I thought we might each think how we could do better ourselves, I have.

Instead, it has turned into a thread of what everybody finds offensive about everybody else. I guess it's a lot easier to see how other people offend us than it is to see how we might offend other people.

That's OK, at least we're talking about it. If we don't at least talk about it, things just seem to get worse.

The "Broken Windows" effect. The broken windows theory is a criminological theory that states that visible signs of crime, anti-social behavior, and civil disorder create an urban environment that encourages further crime and disorder, including serious crimes.

While we're mostly not talking about serious crimes here, the effect is the same.

[mikechell 0]

1 hour ago, Mark Knapp said:

I guess it's a lot easier to see how other people offend us than it is to see how we might offend other people.

1. It's always easier to see that people are doing things that bother you, than to admit you're doing things that bother others.
2. I think the members of this site comprise the best of people.  The dedication and intent of fly tying/fly fishing is an extension of the personality, not an anti-indicator.

[Bill_729 0]

1 hour ago, mikechell said:

The dedication and intent of fly tying/fly fishing is an extension of the personality, not an anti-indicator.

I like to think that about outdoors-people in general.  That's why it surprises me when I see so much "fast-food garbage", and I don't mean just a wrapper or two,  in some of the locales where people fish...  It's like they had to "take-off on account of fire!".

[Poopdeck 0]

I think the problem with respect is most people demand it and feel they are entitled to it as a matter of fact. Let's not confuse respect with courtesy. It's courtesy to give someone a small piece of the stream. The demand for a piece of water as far as the eye can see is unreasonable and has nothing to do with respect.  This is a mentality that is foreign to me. Ill say it again, your a better person and deserving of respect for sharing the limited resources not demanding your solitude in a world filled with others. Especially when there are places of solitude one could go  but they choose to stay in populated areas and ardently demand everybody else respect their desire for solitude. Is that really how respect is defined?  Not my definition. 

Respect is honoring somebodies anchor buoy. Disrespect is throwing an anchor buoy out, going home for a nap, grabbing lunch and meandering back 4 or 5 hours later, or even the following morning, and start yelling about respect when somebody else is anchored over your buoy. Respect cannot be demanded nor should it be expected just because you like your solitude. We all need to learn and appreciate that there are a lot of others who have every right to fish the same stream as anybody else. Only in fly fishing is respect gauged by how others give one solitude even when one doesn't actually do anything themselves for that solitude. 

[Mark Knapp 0]

16 hours ago, Poopdeck said:

I think the problem with respect is most people demand it and feel they are entitled to it as a matter of fact. Let's not confuse respect with courtesy. It's courtesy to give someone a small piece of the stream. The demand for a piece of water as far as the eye can see is unreasonable and has nothing to do with respect.  This is a mentality that is foreign to me. Ill say it again, your a better person and deserving of respect for sharing the limited resources not demanding your solitude in a world filled with others. Especially when there are places of solitude one could go  but they choose to stay in populated areas and ardently demand everybody else respect their desire for solitude. Is that really how respect is defined?  Not my definition. 

Respect is honoring somebodies anchor buoy. Disrespect is throwing an anchor buoy out, going home for a nap, grabbing lunch and meandering back 4 or 5 hours later, or even the following morning, and start yelling about respect when somebody else is anchored over your buoy. Respect cannot be demanded nor should it be expected just because you like your solitude. We all need to learn and appreciate that there are a lot of others who have every right to fish the same stream as anybody else. Only in fly fishing is respect gauged by how others give one solitude even when one doesn't actually do anything themselves for that solitude. 

Very well said. However, I would say that courtesy and respect are almost the same (Honestly, I have trouble telling the difference). I think we all deserve both but should demand neither. It's the only way people can get along, if we show each other respect and/or courtesy.

As for me, I prefer to fish where I can strategically (I think) work a stream without someone else muddying up the waters, so to speak. I also feel somewhat miffed if someone else, with a whole drainage to fish, with literally no one else there, plunks right next to me in the hole I'm fishing. Fortunately for me there are plenty of places where I can go that it is a reasonable expectation that I can be by myself. I know there are lots of places that such an expectation is not reasonable. "When in Rome..." I can not "Demand" a whole section of a stream to myself but I can "Expect" it. I get along the best I can if my expectations are not fulfilled.