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samsonboi

Here ya go Mogup

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22 minutes ago, samsonboi said:

16 sir!

Au Sable Hunchback/Humpy duo

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Some soft hackles

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Very cool flies indeed! And I am not a sir 😂

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Very nice Samsonboi. Keep em coming.  Nice vise. Did you know that Regal is located

in Orange Ma about 50 miles from us ?

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Not a troll post...

I don't understand the "piggyback" concept. How is this different or better than fishing any fly under an indicator. It seems to me that using an indicator rig would be easier to adjust the depth and have more options for variety of flies and be much easier to store in a fly box. Please tell me what I'm missing.

 

BTW...I love the haystacks and the humpys. 

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So... the piggyback concept is an emergent nymph pattern. The deer hair ball is a lot easier to cast (lighter) and unlike a traditional indicator does not impede the drift in the slightest. It also doesn’t splash down and spook fish. Basically the nymph or caddis pupa just floats 2-4” under the surface. It’s tied on a piece of thread or VERY limp and fine mono (I ordered some UNI-Cord GSP thread as a much thinner alternative to heavy nylon thread.) 

 

You can use a deer hair or yarn indicator for traditional indicator nymphing but I am partial to those screw on AirLock biodegradable indicators in hot orange and for smooth water white. I only use the smaller ones except when fishing massive weighted nymphs in spring.

 

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29 minutes ago, samsonboi said:

So... the piggyback concept is an emergent nymph pattern. The deer hair ball is a lot easier to cast (lighter) and unlike a traditional indicator does not impede the drift in the slightest. It also doesn’t splash down and spook fish. Basically the nymph or caddis pupa just floats 2-4” under the surface. It’s tied on a piece of thread or VERY limp and fine mono (I ordered some UNI-Cord GSP thread as a much thinner alternative to heavy nylon thread.

 

You should really stay away from making overriding blanket statements.

A Dorsey indicator doesn't "splash down and spook fish" in the least.

"The Dorsey is lighter, more sensitive, more subtle and more adjustable than anything else you can attach to the line. The smallest Dorsey weighs less than a dry fly and suspends more weight. Even the largest Dorsey touches down on the water like a feather. It doesn’t kink or damage the line and doesn’t move until you want it to, whereby it easily slides on any diameter of line. The crinkled, polypropylene macrame yarn traps more air than cork or styrofoam, so it floats better. The Dorsey also costs next to nothing, and you can fish it in any color you like."

https://troutbitten.com/2017/03/30/dorsey-yarn-indicator-everything-need-know-little/

 

As to "impeding the drift"

"Strengths of an indicator nymphing system— Steady, smoother drifts with less bounce. An indicator rig tends to even out the drift by eliminating the incidental or unintended motion that tight line nymphing can introduce to the nymphs."

https://troutbitten.com/2018/06/26/nymphing-tight-line-vs-indicator/#:~:text=— Steady%2C smoother drifts with less bounce. An,indicators are better for this than yarn styles.

 

 

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I'm always afraid that fish are going to bite on anything that doesn't have a hook in it, but I get the concept.

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5 minutes ago, Mark Knapp said:

I'm always afraid that fish are going to bite on anything that doesn't have a hook in it, but I get the concept.

Yep, every now and then a fish might hit your indy (hasn't happened to me yet, but I'm patient.  Fishing a hopper/dropper, dry/dropper can solve the no hook problem.  In my experience sometimes that's not possible nor efficient. Fishing a size 22 or 24 trico on top makes it very tough to drop another 22, 24 or even 26 off it and keep the dry floating.  You (not necessarily you Mark) can fish an 18/20 PMD/BWO and drop a 24 off that.  Sometimes there's just nothing on top to drop off of. We fish some really techy tailwaters. Three fly nymph rig, 22->26 sometimes even 28 with a #6 split shot (0.1g) about 2' above the first fly, indy is the only way I can really keep track of what's going on under the surface. 

Like troutbitten says, each -tightline and indy- has it's strengths and weaknesses. It's up us the angler to exploit those strengths.

 

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Sandan- I'm talking big plastic Thingamabobbers and the big Airlocks for splashdown and a less natural drift. 

 

and as for less movement- movement in a drift is natural. I like bounce. A steady drifting fly isn't natural. With this you can give your hanging fly a twitch without disturbing the surface too much and even if the trout hits the deer hair ball, it's close enough to the fly that it'll still suck the fly in and get hooked.

Yeah Dorsey indicators are great, but I prefer the new biodegradeable AirLocks if I'm gonna use a traditional indicator.

Another thing that works really well in this same concept is leaving a long (anywhere from 3-8" works fine and I prefer 3-5") tag of 5X, 6X, or 7X off the eye of a small emergent-looking nymph or caddis pupa when you tie it on instead of clipping the tag. Then you take one of those small pinch-on foam indicators or that floating indicator putty (but the putty comes off easier) and pinch it on to the tag.

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Man, I never knew bobber fishing could be so complicated! :rolleyes:     

 

(Only kidding of course, but I couldn't miss the opportunity to be a smart-ass)

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15 hours ago, samsonboi said:

Sandan- I'm talking big plastic Thingamabobbers and the big Airlocks for splashdown and a less natural drift. 

You should have said that. As mentioned below, if your getting splashdown, you're having a problem w/ line control.  It's NOT the indy that's causing a less natural drift, it's again....line control.

and as for less movement- movement in a drift is natural. I like bounce. A steady drifting fly isn't natural. With this you can give your hanging fly a twitch without disturbing the surface too much and even if the trout hits the deer hair ball, it's close enough to the fly that it'll still suck the fly in and get hooked.

You may like bounce, but bounce is an un-natural drift. Bounce is not the nymph moving in the current. It's an unnatural movement made by having too tight or too slack a connection to the fly when using a tight line nymphing system. You can twitch your nymph w/ an indy or a tight line w/o disturbing the surface "too much". It's called line control.  As to the "even if..." I have to disagree. Have you ever fished a dry/dropper and when the fish comes to hit the dry it feels the tippet to the dropper and doesn't eat because of that? Again, overriding statements just don't make it. 

Yeah Dorsey indicators are great, but I prefer the new biodegradeable AirLocks if I'm gonna use a traditional indicator.

You can use whatever you want. IMHO if you aren't using a Dorsey when it's applicable your doing yourself a disfavor. Dorsey's aren't very good in the wind, but if it's not windy they are pretty much hands down the most sensitive indy out there.  Of course that's my opinion, and open for debate, but it's backed up by many professionals. The Dorsey is much more easily adjustable than an Airlock too. How do I know, I fish both depending on the circumstances.

Another thing that works really well in this same concept is leaving a long (anywhere from 3-8" works fine and I prefer 3-5") tag of 5X, 6X, or 7X off the eye of a small emergent-looking nymph or caddis pupa when you tie it on instead of clipping the tag. Then you take one of those small pinch-on foam indicators or that floating indicator putty (but the putty comes off easier) and pinch it on to the tag.

I'm trying to make sense of this. Why would you put an indy on the tag, when that would disconnect it from the direct leader/tippet connection rather than keep your indy in direct contact with your bugs? Put the indy on the main line and drop another nymph off the tag.  Fishing a multi-nymph rig w/ bugs on tags is a tried and true technique. Putting the indy on the tag might work for you but I'll bet you're missing a bunch of hits due to the dis-connect. I'm also wondering how you adjust for depth with the indy on the tag?

 

[edit] I'm not picking a fight w/ you. I'm trying to educate you [/edit]

 

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I never miss hits with an indy on the tag or a Piggyback. The fish are sucking the pupa or emergent nymph in confidently and hit hard especially on a caddis pupa. With a Piggyback or indy on the tag you don’t need to adjust for depth- the depth you want is just below the surface. I use Airlocks most simply because the river I fish most, the Au Sable, is usually quite rough and there is often wind. With small creeks and smooth waters (including the few smooth water sections of the West Branch and most of the east branch) I go to a Dorsey as wind is less of a problem and they don’t impede casting and splash down on those smooth waters. 

 

When on very, very small creeks I go back to an Airlock as they have some weight, so when I’m dapping wets they can give some swing to the line and when I’m drifting wets or nymphs I can swing the line upstream, put it down, drift, and repeat and the less air-resistant, slightly denser tiny Airlock indicator again helps me swing the fly upstream. But I sometimes use a Dorsey in this situation. It just depends on the situation for me.

 

 

Thank you for your comments. They are correct for the most part on sensitivity except on rough waters, where it is easier to detect the obvious “tick” of a bobber-style indicator and easily tell the difference between a strike and when it just gets splashed by water or blown by wind, versus a Dorsey style. On rough water the Airlock is the best tool for the job.

But on smooth water and low wind or small creeks, the Dorsey is the best.

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Sandan, I think your missing the point. These are designed for specific situations, not general purpose nymphing. The purpose of the Piggyback/Parasol style emerger is to imitate a nymph hanging just below the surface prior to emergence. Often these are tied to hang the fly maybe an inch deep. There are certainly other ways to do this it's just one technique.

 

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