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Mark Knapp

Please read these guidelines for critique

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10 hours ago, Steeldrifter said:

All Mark did was put up some guidelines, which for the most part have been in effect for 18 yrs now but we just never had them in written word.

maybe its time the moderators and more importantly the forum owner get together offline and come up with a set of reasonable and fair rules/guidelines for the forum and put them in writing in a sticky or some other readily accessible place so that all members present and future can read

rules.jpg

put the "unwritten" rules into "written" rules

 

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I had a long post written up, but not sure it'll add anything constructive. I think the guidelines are good, I'll leave it at that. Most people here are great already, but it doesn't hurt to be reminded.

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Thanks for posting this, I think you are correct on your assessment.  Personally I think this all could be summed up by saying “just don’t be a jerk”. Haha!  
 

I agree with the guidelines, I think it’s good to treat others with respect.  Not all tiers are 20+ year veterans to the hobby, and might not tie as well as others.  But for people just starting out, or don’t have time to invest in really honing in their craft, they will post and be proud of what they accomplished.  To them it’s great, but to someone who has been tying for 20 years, they might find some fault in it.  For sure! But what they tied is great for them, and maybe they don’t want someone to tell them all the wrong they did.  They just want someone to say hey, nice job!  Or hey nothing at all right?  Heck, I’ve seen young kids on here post stuff and get torn apart.   Granted I’ve also seen some very kind and helpful people on this forum as well.  Just like the world, some people are great, others aren’t.  Good to have some form of guidelines.  Thanks!  

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3 hours ago, flytire said:

maybe its time the moderators and more importantly the forum owner get together offline and come up with a set of reasonable and fair rules/guidelines for the forum and put them in writing in a sticky or some other readily accessible place so that all members present and future can read

Pinned topics such as this work better than doing it in the header as you suggested Norm. Over the years I have found people don't read things the way you would expect them to do so. I get countless PM's all the time from people asking about things that are already plain as day on the main forum homepage. So having things pinned like Mark did seems to work better. That isn't even fool proof though. Case in point- I still get a number of people that join the site and try to post things for sale, even though the rules for the trading floor are right there at the top of the trading floor.

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53 minutes ago, Steeldrifter said:

Pinned topics such as this work better than doing it in the header as you suggested Norm. Over the years I have found people don't read things the way you would expect them to do so. I get countless PM's all the time from people asking about things that are already plain as day on the main forum homepage. So having things pinned like Mark did seems to work better. That isn't even fool proof though. Case in point- I still get a number of people that join the site and try to post things for sale, even though the rules for the trading floor are right there at the top of the trading floor.

I was an offender of that when I first started steel.  I didn’t read, had a used fly reel on eBay and posted the link here.  I took it down after I was told the rules though.  But if I read I would have known not to do that in the first place.  
 

I will say though, in my, and others defense.  We are in a society where we learn to overlook things.  Good example.  I now sell flies, and the paperwork to fill out each quarter, and the rules/laws is so crazy!  Local rules, federal rules, excise tax rules, etc.  same thing with anything we buy.  Get a cell phone plan, there are pages of “reading” that most don’t read, if we read every bit of paperwork from everything we signed up for or bought we would never leave the house from constant reading.  Hahaha!  

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Mark Knapp is just another member of the forum, since when does this give him permission to set the rules?

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15 hours ago, Mogup said:

You’ve been such a nice guy on this forum Mark Knapp. You must have a heart of gold. 🙂

Did you just say "bless your heart"? 

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14 minutes ago, Bazzer69 said:

Mark Knapp is just another member of the forum, since when does this give him permission to set the rules?

 

Since he because a Moderator. I made two posts about it in the past week. One here in the tying bench and the other in the Lodge. And again, these are rules that have basically been in place for 18 yrs now, not Mark making up new rules by any means. We are just posting them so they are pinned.

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15 hours ago, Mark Knapp said:

 

It is not the fault of the listener if they take something the wrong way, it's the responsibility of the speaker to say things in a way that cannot be mistaken (within reason).

 

 

Respectfully disagree. One party cannot be held to a higher standard.  The presumption of innocence is fundamental.  It is the responsibility of the listener to assume no harm, unless it's explicit.  It's the responsibility of the speaker to be clear in what they are saying. 

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I've been taught if you are going to stand up to a problem you need to have a suggestion on how to make it better. 

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12 minutes ago, Sandan said:

Respectfully disagree. One party cannot be held to a higher standard. 

Or, you could take the point of view that the opportunity to post is a privilege, and not a right.  Note: I am not a lawyer and I'm only playing one here for the time that it takes me to post this! ; )

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2 minutes ago, Bill_729 said:

Or, you could take the point of view that the opportunity to post is a privilege, and not a right.  Note: I am not a lawyer and I'm only playing one here for the time that it takes me to post this! ; )

Of course it's a privilege.  Being offended by someone's well meaning comment is abuse of privilege. (I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night)

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15 minutes ago, Sandan said:

Of course it's a privilege.  Being offended by someone's well meaning comment is abuse of privilege.

I hope that makes it into the guidelines!

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28 minutes ago, Sandan said:

Respectfully disagree. One party cannot be held to a higher standard.  The presumption of innocence is fundamental.  It is the responsibility of the listener to assume no harm, unless it's explicit.  It's the responsibility of the speaker to be clear in what they are saying. 

I personally don't want what I say to be misconstrued, and if it is, it's my fault for saying something that can be misconstrued. It's the sign of a skilled speaker to say what he means to say. It's the sign of a poor speaker to let what they say be mistaken.

Lots of critique is given as veiled insults in the pretense to "help" somebody. We can all word any comment in a way that it could not be taken the wrong way (usually just by adding a word or two).

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I have struggled at times in life to understand that other peoples perceptions are their realities. It does not matter what my intentions were in a conversation. If I left them feeling invalid or insulted and I did not intend to, then I have some things to look at about myself. 

I am only speaking about me from my experience but after 20 years in leadership positions at work and having as many as 240 employees at a time I have found that people are easily offended. This is Especially true if they put creativity and effort into something. To me that puts a heavy responsibility on ME to insure that my intentions to help them improve are encouraging and uplifting. 

 

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