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Fly Tying
Mark Knapp

Please read these guidelines for critique

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18 hours ago, skeet3t said:

I frequent a fishing FB page. As for proper fish handling, some people get downright nasty. My approach- "May I suggest...,?" "You might try...."

Its very easy to add just one or two words like these. Nice.

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2 minutes ago, Mark Knapp said:

I personally don't want what I say to be misconstrued, and if it is, it's my fault for saying something that can be misconstrued. It's the sign of a skilled speaker to say what he means to say. It's the sign of a poor speaker to let what they say be mistaken.

Lots of critique is given as veiled insults in the pretense to "help" somebody. We can all word any comment in a way that it could not be taken the wrong way (usually just by adding a word or two).

I know I have only been here a couple months but I have found your comments to be kind, encouraging, and clear.I have personally appreciated them.

 

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5 hours ago, flytire said:

maybe its time the moderators and more importantly the forum owner get together offline and come up with a set of reasonable and fair rules/guidelines for the forum and put them in writing in a sticky or some other readily accessible place so that all members present and future can read

rules.jpg

put the "unwritten" rules into "written" rules

 

That's exactly what I did. Only the location was different. I'm pretty sure no one would have seen what I wrote if I had put it in the "Forum Rules"

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3 minutes ago, Mark Knapp said:

I personally don't want what I say to be misconstrued, and if it is, it's my fault for saying something that can be misconstrued. It's the sign of a skilled speaker to say what he means to say. It's the sign of a poor speaker to let what they say be mistaken.

Lots of critique is given as veiled insults in the pretense to "help" somebody. We can all word any comment in a way that it could not be taken the wrong way (usually just by adding a word or two).

Mark, again I'm going to respectfully disagree on some things here. After this comment I'm done w/ the topic, because I think we're basically on the same page.  It's just as much the sign of a poor listener to take offense when none is intended, implied or imputed. Agreed the speaker needs to be clear.  Here's an example.  I'm talking to you, you're say 6'6" go about 245. I say you're a pretty big guy. You get all bent out of shape and get offended because you inferred I just called you fat. (Not me and you of course)

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Is this forum following the left in becoming to “woke”. 
if a fly dressing with a picture is badly tied why not say so as long as it’s constructive criticism?

Barry

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1 hour ago, Bazzer69 said:

Mark Knapp is just another member of the forum, since when does this give him permission to set the rules?

I am sorry to tell you Barry that I have been given the highly exalted role of MODERATOR, lucky me. It was posted in three different places on this forum.

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35 minutes ago, Sandan said:

Of course it's a privilege.  Being offended by someone's well meaning comment is abuse of privilege. (I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night)

You see, that's where the problem is. Sometimes they are well meaning and sometimes they are not. If you write a well meaning comment, make sure it can only be read as well meaning. It's very easy to do.

I'm not talking here of you personally, you have always come off as a well meaning person. I could have used the word "One" instead of "You" but it makes it sound like I'm a robot. I AM NOT A ROBOT, A ROBOT, A ROBOT.

 

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21 minutes ago, Pbass said:

I have struggled at times in life to understand that other peoples perceptions are their realities. It does not matter what my intentions were in a conversation. If I left them feeling invalid or insulted and I did not intend to, then I have some things to look at about myself. 

I am only speaking about me from my experience but after 20 years in leadership positions at work and having as many as 240 employees at a time I have found that people are easily offended. This is Especially true if they put creativity and effort into something. To me that puts a heavy responsibility on ME to insure that my intentions to help them improve are encouraging and uplifting. 

 

Yeah, that's exactly what I am saying. Bravo. you want to be a moderator? It's easy. (Just kidding of course, not my call)

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16 minutes ago, Sandan said:

Mark, again I'm going to respectfully disagree on some things here. After this comment I'm done w/ the topic, because I think we're basically on the same page.  It's just as much the sign of a poor listener to take offense when none is intended, implied or imputed. Agreed the speaker needs to be clear.  Here's an example.  I'm talking to you, you're say 6'6" go about 245. I say you're a pretty big guy. You get all bent out of shape and get offended because you inferred I just called you fat. (Not me and you of course)

I wish I was 6'6" and 245. Your so sweet. I value what ever you have to say, you are one of the gems of this site. Unfortunately, one of the other gems of this site left because HE saw things he didn't like.

I wrote this post to encourage more younger folks to post and I wrote it because I thought it might encourage ladies to participate.

This is a great place, fly tiers are known for striving for perfection, that's what I'm doing.

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Mark, you have only been a member of this forum for two years. As a moderator it’s your job to interpret the rules not to make them. 
The world has gone mad with so called “wokeness “ it would be a shame to see this forum to go the same way, it would seem to me that you are encouraging that. 
just my opinion of course from a 5’ 11” member who’s had nearly thirty years in the industry, Trout and Salmon only of course. 
im not interested in keeping this crazy thread going any longer, maybe one of the moderators should lock it?

Barry

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Here is a suggestion that works for me when typing a reply to a post. Before hitting the Submit Reply button, read over what you just typed and wait a minute or two to see if you really want to submit what it was you just typed. You may, like I, just not submit it, or re-phrase what it was you were trying to convey.

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22 minutes ago, Bazzer69 said:

Is this forum following the left in becoming to “woke”. 
if a fly dressing with a picture is badly tied why not say so as long as it’s constructive criticism?

Barry

Barry, all I'm asking is for people to be kinder to other people.

If you walk up to another guy on a river while he's fly fishing, that you don't know, do you start telling him how to cast better? Even if he doesn't ask?

If I present a bunch of knives on a table at a show and someone walks up and starts commenting about the mistakes I made on the knives, there's going to be a problem.

Why is the internet different, why is anything posted fair game for criticism just because someone posted it? It's open for discussion sure, you and I both know there is a difference between conversation and critique. And there is a difference between constructive critique and tearing someone down to make ones self look knowledgeable.

I did not make this all up, the guidelines I posted are recognized criteria for critique all over the place. In art school, the rules are much stricter than this. At knife shows there are clear rules of etiquette that are standard. You don't pick up a knife unless you are given permission to do so. You don't give critique unless you are asked to do it. Etc.

These are not MY perceived problems, these guidelines are the results of conversations with other current and past members.

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7 minutes ago, Bazzer69 said:

Mark, you have only been a member of this forum for two years. As a moderator it’s your job to interpret the rules not to make them. 
The world has gone mad with so called “wokeness “ it would be a shame to see this forum to go the same way, it would seem to me that you are encouraging that. 
just my opinion of course from a 5’ 11” member who’s had nearly thirty years in the industry, Trout and Salmon only of course. 
im not interested in keeping this crazy thread going any longer, maybe one of the moderators should lock it?

Barry

Again, I am a moderator.

What does it matter if I've only been a member here for two years, I've been asked to be a moderator. Maybe you should ask the head moderator how that came to be. I can see that you have 155 posts, I have 2,618. Why would your opinions be more valid than mine?

Again, I did not make this stuff up. I was asked to do something to help make the forum a kinder place by current and former, LONG TIME members of this forum.

Are you reading the whole thread or just skimming because it seems like you keep bringing up questions that have already been answered several times.

 

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15 minutes ago, FIN-ITE 34 said:

Here is a suggestion that works for me when typing a reply to a post. Before hitting the Submit Reply button, read over what you just typed and wait a minute or two to see if you really want to submit what it was you just typed. You may, like I, just not submit it, or re-phrase what it was you were trying to convey.

That's what I do.

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Here's the thing, I am a moderator, I have been asked to be one but I don't have to stay here, I have other things to do.

I did not post anything arbitrarily, without consulting with the other moderators and without requests from other members to do it.

IF YOU GUYS WANT, I CAN BE VOTED OFF THE ISLAND. Like I said, I have other things I can do.

If I stay as a moderator, I will do what I can to make this already very fine forum just a little bit better, if I can.

I thank you for your support. 😁

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