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Pbass

Non toxic floatant options?

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HI. Anyone know of a good Non toxic fly floatant? It seems like most of the stuff is not good for you. I already have some nerve damage  from the chemicals I worked in for 20 years so I am trying to be extra careful with what I get on my skin. 

Thanks Jim  

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Off the top of my head, the only one can think of is Abolene, though it's marketed as a make-up remover/ skin moisturizer product.  I'm not sure of the ingredients in the other floatants I use.  I never gave a thought to if they were toxic, frankly, I just assumed they wouldn't be.    

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36 minutes ago, niveker said:

Off the top of my head, the only one can think of is Abolene, though it's marketed as a make-up remover/ skin moisturizer product.  I'm not sure of the ingredients in the other floatants I use.  I never gave a thought to if they were toxic, frankly, I just assumed they wouldn't be.    

Thanks for the tip on the Abolene. I will give it a try. 

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4 hours ago, Mark Knapp said:

I didn't know any of them were toxic. Are they? What's toxic in them?

I don't know the exact ingredient's but the side affect to exposure is detrimental, slowly consuming the mind causing a rapid and complete obsession's with fly fishing. In extreme cases it causes involuntary responses to collect and amass animal parts and shiny things and attach them to fish hooks. It is said the industry included the trade secret copiously and intentionally to disrupt the social fabric of the world and create a race of fishing zombies... sounds almost unbelievable,  but just to be safe I fish mostly with wet or subsurface patterns. Got to go there is a squirrel with a beautiful tail hanging around my exotic bird feeders ….  

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Pbass, I apologize up front for hijacking your thread. I just could not resist my response with less than one cup of coffee in me this morning. I use Albolene myself, out of economy never thought about toxins. 

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@cphubert

I've seen those poor guys with those mental problems, standing in a river, waiving a stick, decorating the surrounding trees and bushes with little bits of those shiny things and animal parts. 

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I'd like to know what specific chemical(s) in what specific fly flotant is(are) toxic.

California has the most stringent labelling laws and I have no knowledge of California labelling flotants as hazardous.

https://wp.sbcounty.gov/dbh/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/California_Code_of_Regulations-Title8_Section-5194_Hazard_Communication.pdf

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4 hours ago, SilverCreek said:

I'd like to know what specific chemical(s) in what specific fly flotant is(are) toxic.

California has the most stringent labelling laws and I have no knowledge of California labelling flotants as hazardous.

https://wp.sbcounty.gov/dbh/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/California_Code_of_Regulations-Title8_Section-5194_Hazard_Communication.pdf

Me too.

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Most fly floatants have a form of silicon oil which is strongly hydrophobic (water repelling). If you know car polishes that are water repellant, silicon compounds are what are used.

They are considered extremely safe by most scientists. Certainly in the amount used for fly floatants, I have no concern,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4884743/

"Summary

Generally, siloxanes (silicones) are well tolerated by the human organism, and therefore they are an integral part of innovative methods of treatment, health care and nursing. They are commonly regarded as non-toxic to humans and the environment, or toxic to a very small extend."

 

Even in industrial settings where exposure is higher, it is relatively safe

https://datasheets.scbt.com/sc-212925.pdf

"SWALLOWED !

Silicone fluids do not have a high acute toxicity. They may have a laxative effect and produce central nervous system depression. ! High molecular weight material; on single acute exposure would be expected to pass through gastrointestinal tract with little change / absorption. Occasionally accumulation of the solid material within the alimentary tract may result in formation of a bezoar (concretion), producing discomfort. ! The material has NOT been classified as "harmful by ingestion". This is because of the lack of corroborating animal or human evidence.

SKIN !

The material is not thought to produce adverse health effects or skin irritation following contact (as classified using animal models). Nevertheless, good hygiene practice requires that exposure be kept to a minimum and that suitable gloves be used in an occupational setting. ! Skin contact is not thought to have harmful health effects, however the material may still produce health damage following entry through wounds, lesions or abrasions. ! There is some evidence to suggest that this material can cause inflammation of the skin on contact in some persons. ! Low molecular weight silicone fluids may exhibit solvent action and may produce skin irritation."

I use food grade silicone tubing for making my own NZ strike indicators. This tubing is used to deliver beverages like sodas and beer.

https://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/strike-indicators.904911/#post-1569118

I was asked to write an article on fly floatants for California Fly Fisher by Ralph Cutter. It was published in the February, 2002 issue. You can read a summary here:

https://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/fly-floatants-for-noobies-or-what-floats-your-fly.345179/#post642614

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I'm guessing the solvents used in some flotants ... especially home-made versions ... would be considered toxic.  Some of those can be absorbed through the skin, too.

I know some people who are completely numb in the fingers and thumbs, due to solvents used in the airframe world.

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14 hours ago, mikechell said:

I'm guessing the solvents used in some flotants ... especially home-made versions ... would be considered toxic.  Some of those can be absorbed through the skin, too.

I know some people who are completely numb in the fingers and thumbs, due to solvents used in the airframe world.

Your mention of home-made flotants reminds me of when I was participating in a fly fishing camp as a youngster, one of the old timers was talking about his secret, special flotant recipe. He had a jar of what I think was white gas and who knows what else that he'd dunk his fly in. I remember jokes about its toxicity. Can't imagine something like that would be good for the angler or the water. I can only imagine what some people out there use!

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37 minutes ago, flykid said:

I can only imagine what some people out there use!

Agree.  Some homemade recipes call for a mix of white gas and paraffin, some will mix the Abolene with white gas also.  I like to enjoy a smoke on the river, so besides seeming more trouble than its worth, the white gas and the paraffin was a no go for me.  I find if you keep it warm next to your body, and smudge a bit in the palm of your hand, it melts enough to coat the fly. 

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I keep my albolene in a 35mm film canister in my vest, just a small dab on my fingers and rub the fly. Never used the white gas and paraffin but do know some old timers that did as a new fly coating prior to fishing. I have used it to degrease duck skins but that is another subject.

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