SalarMan 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2020 On 11/29/2020 at 11:46 AM, Sandan said: @Moshup , @chugbug27 Thank you gents. @flytire I'm working on the proportions, thanks. Obviously there's still work to be done. @cphubert I tried burnishing the underbody and the floss. @SalarMan I ordered the thread and burnisher. I used the shaft of a bodkin in my attempt to burnish the underbody and the floss, keeping the thread as flat as I could. BTW I used Gordon Griffiths14/0 Sheer to keep the thread bulk down. I think it worked. I tried matching my proportions to the picture, SBS, I'm working with. Your final tip just might be the critical piece of the puzzle to get everything else to fall into place. Marathon not a sprint and drawing out the fly really helped. Question: After mounting the wings, when I tie in the shoulders, cheek, topping and horns sometimes the wings will split apart, I remarry them as best I can. Is that common, might I be handling them too much to cause that? Regarding the wings splitting...now we are getting into the area of material quality. I imagine you are using goose shoulder which is easy to use but can vary widely in quality. Your options are either swan (hard to find) or dyed white turkey. John McLain's (feathersmc.com) goose shoulder is probably the best you will find anywhere, plus his dye work is second to none. He also has a respectable selection of turkey at this time. And yes too much handling can cause wing problems...I know from experience LOL. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SalarMan 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, flytire said: i believe uni stretch = wooly nylon I prefer wooly nylon thread because it is finer diameter and that gives better control of the diameter (size) of the underbody and it also seems to wrap smoother. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandan 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2020 3 hours ago, SalarMan said: Regarding the wings splitting...now we are getting into the area of material quality. I imagine you are using goose shoulder which is easy to use but can vary widely in quality. Your options are either swan (hard to find) or dyed white turkey. John McLain's (feathersmc.com) goose shoulder is probably the best you will find anywhere, plus his dye work is second to none. He also has a respectable selection of turkey at this time. And yes too much handling can cause wing problems...I know from experience LOL. @SalarMan "Regarding the wings splitting...now we are getting into the area of material quality. I imagine you are using goose shoulder which is easy to use but can vary widely in quality. Your options are either swan (hard to find) or dyed white turkey. John McLain's (feathersmc.com) goose shoulder is probably the best you will find anywhere, plus his dye work is second to none. He also has a respectable selection of turkey at this time." You are 100% correct about the goose shoulders from my local shop. Off to feathersmc. "And yes too much handling can cause wing problems...I know from experience LOL." Glad it's not only me. Thank you sir Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SalarMan 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2020 58 minutes ago, Sandan said: @SalarMan "Regarding the wings splitting...now we are getting into the area of material quality. I imagine you are using goose shoulder which is easy to use but can vary widely in quality. Your options are either swan (hard to find) or dyed white turkey. John McLain's (feathersmc.com) goose shoulder is probably the best you will find anywhere, plus his dye work is second to none. He also has a respectable selection of turkey at this time." You are 100% correct about the goose shoulders from my local shop. Off to feathersmc. "And yes too much handling can cause wing problems...I know from experience LOL." Glad it's not only me. Thank you sir Tell McLain George K sent you. I know him well and he will appreciate that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandan 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2020 31 minutes ago, SalarMan said: Tell McLain George K sent you. I know him well and he will appreciate that. @SalarMan I'll be happy to mention you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RexW 0 Report post Posted December 7, 2020 I had missed this thread before today. Wow, there is a lot of good advice in here. Thanks for the help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SalarMan 0 Report post Posted December 7, 2020 I tend to think of what we do and say here as passing along knowledge as opposed to advice. I am glad to be able to share what so many folks have taught me over the years...and places like this make it a pleasure. I hope others agree and will share their knowledge and experience as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandan 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2020 Another attempt. I think the proportions are better, though still needs work. The GP tippet is too short. Thread work is getting better, slowly. Lay that knowledge and all on me. I'm waiting on my feathersmc order to arrive, darn post office. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SalarMan 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2020 Okay Sandan - Proportions are looking good and there is a distinct improvement in your body work! Man how I wish you lived next door so I could show you how to prep golden pheasant crests...but I will try to explain. Take some of the crests from the head and soak them in warm (not hot) water for an hour or so. then one at a time place them on a pane of glass, plexiglas or a synthetic cutting board. With a bodkin carefully shape them to the curve you want and also fan the fibers to create the cascade effect that is so pleasant to look at on the finished fly for both the tail and the topping...photo attached of a fly to illustrate. Allow to thoroughly dry before placing then in a plastic box...and they are ready to go. When tying them in be sure to avoid catching any of the fibers under your thread so you don't have any wild fibers sticking out at odd angles. Just tie on the center quill (rachis) itself which makes for a better appearance. The tippet underwing is fine, just make it long enough so the second bar is directly over the herl butt. Finally the wing. Length is spot on, but it needs to be a bit wider. For instance on a 1/0 through a 4/0 hook the wing is usually composed of 24 fibers depending on the material used. Goose my require a couple more, dyed turkey require one or two less. Enough for now but for one question. Did you order from feathersmc through the site or talk to John McLain on the phone? I know he ALWAYS ships priority mail so the wait should not be more than 2 to 4 days. I will send you his number via a pm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandan 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2020 @SalarMan, once again your knowledge and advice is greatly appreciated. If I were next door, I think I'd be at your house everyday. I'm doing the GP prep right now. Soaking anyhow. Then the rest. Your picture really helps, a lot. The wing width was something I had no idea about. Thank you. Lessons are being internalized. Results to follow later. Thank you again. Michael PS: PM was received and answered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandan 0 Report post Posted December 27, 2020 And another attempt at Snowie's #2. Sub-ing various materials. Prepped the GP as per @SalarMan's instructions. Big difference. Spent some more time on the body. Added fibers to the wings as per @SalarMan's advice. The wind this time is GP center tail fibers below Kori Bustard below mottled peacock, blue goose shoulder and GP on top. Kori was a little gift from feathersmc. Comments, criticism, advice fire away. Gotta work on my winging skills some more. [edit] darn I forgot the horns[/edit] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chugbug27 0 Report post Posted December 27, 2020 Isn't that neat! Happy holidays @Sandan, fun to watch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moshup 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2020 @Sandan Very nice sir ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandan 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2020 @chugbug27 It's pretty fun as you well know. @Moshup Thank you. I'm digging all the ties you're posting this month (like every month) too. Happy New Year to both of you fine gentlemen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chugbug27 0 Report post Posted December 31, 2020 Happy New Year! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites