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Bimini15

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Silver, that‚Äôs the one. I was intrigued enough to order one. I will let you know sometime after Christmas...ūüėä

Sandan, thanks for the article. 

Bimini

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22 hours ago, vicrider said:

I always wonder about the myth that a DT line will roll cast better than a WF. Don't know how far you're roll casting but if we consider a 9' leader and 35' of taper than you'd have to roll cast more than 45' of line before there is a difference in the line for roll casting. The first 35' of WF is the same as the first 35' of DT unless you're getting into the specialty lines of today. I agree that lines have priced themselves out of my market for the most part but there is a board I'm on with a Classified where I can find lines of any type or style for half the original cost and they're often brand new or very lightly fished. 

I agree with your comparison of a standard DT and WF line. However, if someone wants the best roll casing line, they should consider the Wulff Triangle Taper fly lines.

The Wulff Triangle Taper fly line has a longer section of taper than a standard double taper line. The tapered section of a Wulff TT line varies from 27 ft to 40 ft depending on the line you buy. So a heavier section of line is turning over a light section of fly line over a greater distance,

A standard DT line like the Cortland 444 has a shorter front taper as shown in the diagram of the 5 wt line below. The front taper is only 8 feet.

1330078786_dt2.jpg

 

Here is the diagram of a WF Wulff TT fly line. As I noted above, the length of the front taper varies from 27 to 40 feet. 

4638576_orig.png

 

Because of the continuous front taper, even at the shortest taper of 27 ft.; the taper is 3 times as long as a standard DT or WF fly line. A Wulff TT line will roll cast farther than either a standard DT or WF fly line.

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On 11/28/2020 at 6:07 PM, JSzymczyk said:

"nearly difficult to find" (DT) at a reasonable price from a retailer.  

Last year (2019) I had no trouble finding many economical choices ($20-$30) of 7-DT-F, and at just about the same time had to pay $60 for 5-DT-F.   I attributed the difference to "market differentiation" by the manufacturers rather than a significant difference in the fly line.  That said, my plans to use the weight 5 line were curtailed this year, and I haven't tried it yet (but I am looking forward to do so!). 

There's another reason for a beginner to go with a 7-weight, among others I can think of (other things constant).

Bill

I haven't been "informed" by the owner of my local fly shop that there is no real difference between DT and WF (and mostly all they stock is WF), and I heartily disagree. FWIW, I am using fiberglass rods.

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@Silver Creek This is the profile of the Clean Sweep line. It looks a bit like the Wulff, although the proportions seem to be way different.

A52F028F-6A9B-4527-99A4-E4F3A3996D28.thumb.jpeg.da5f6381dcad4ec007e77277407c683f.jpeg

@Bill_729 That differentiation reminds me of the jump in price you see in many hooks when you go from size 1 to 1/0

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I used Rio lines and the high floating Hook and Hackle lines for several years and was very satisfied with both.  Two years ago I bought 5 lines online and I think the lines at the time were $4.  Put them on one 5 wt rig and 4 different 3wt outfits.  I am pleased with the performance of the lines.  I do not fish nearly as much as I want.  I am not sure how well these lines would hold up if I were fishing 175-200 days a year.  They are DT floating lines and I have fished them on 7, 8, 9, and 10 ft three weight rods.  The lines get fished every trip I take and serve me well.

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On 11/29/2020 at 10:36 AM, knotjoe said:

 

Just for clarity, when you speak of running line, do you really mean the running line section of flyline or are you conflating that with backing?  Casting into the actual running line is not rare for flyfishers of even a moderate skill level.  Jerkin' on the backing knot, however, is a much smaller subgroup of casters.  

no no,¬† not the backing.¬† Shooting a cast with the entire front taper of a fly line outside the tip of the rod.¬†¬† Possibly it is a regional bias, I don't know.¬† I've fly fished in a lot of different places and in my experience it is rare for¬† the "average" fly fisherman to be pounding out casts into the thin line behind the tapers.... even out here on the Susquehanna (which if you ever read anything by any author who ever mentions the Susquehanna, you will read that the Susquehanna IS OVER A MILE WIDE IN PLACES¬† ūüėÜ )¬† most people cast for shyte.

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On 11/28/2020 at 9:01 PM, SilverCreek said:

Huh???

http://nizkor.com/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

"The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position."

https://www.txstate.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/Red-Herring.html

http://nizkor.com/features/fallacies/red-herring.html

"A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. "

 

What I said was that the farther you can cast, the more fish you can reach. "it's not 57% more fish if the fish aren't there"

What you do are not considering is the law of averages. Statiscally, when you cover 57% more area, there will be times that there WILL be less than 57% more fish BUT there this will be balanced by the time that there are MORE that 57% more fish. So there is correlation between the area you can cover and the number of fish you can reach. Do it enough and it will "average" 57% more fish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size_determination

This is the result of the Central Limit Theorem.

https://www.britannica.com/science/central-limit-theorem

Yowza,  you even worked the color of my hypothetical automobile preference reference into your challenge with a "red" herring.   That is impressive.   If I'm not mistaken, that is called the "Baffle Them with Bullshit" theorem, but I'm just too tired to look up and copy/paste a reference.   Either way, it's all good.    I'll fish with you any day, and almost guarantee I'll catch less fish.   In the end, it is fishing.  It isn't a *adjective which will get me banned* exercise in mental gymnastics.... at least not for me.     I'm not sure of the philosophical tenet or the statistical "law" which applies, but you can cast a mile and a half every time- but if you are not casting to the location of the fish, with a presentation and a lure which causes them to strike, it is irrelevant.  If you can only accurately cast, say, 50 feet, but the vast majority of your casts are reserved for extremely high probability targets, AND you are highly skilled in not "spooking" fish, AND you are using a fly which is acceptable to them, AND it is presented in a manner which causes them to eat it, don't all your numbers become crap?  Those are only five variables in an unknowable vastness of variables....  Is this a Plato vs. Aristotle thing?     I need a(nother) drink....

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13 hours ago, JSzymczyk said:

.....  most people cast for shyte.

Truth dat! (excluding you and I of courseūüėé)

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16 hours ago, JSzymczyk said:

even out here on the Susquehanna (which if you ever read anything by any author who ever mentions the Susquehanna, you will read that the Susquehanna IS OVER A MILE WIDE IN PLACES¬† ūüėÜ )¬† most people cast for shyte.

A mile wide and a foot deep.  I readily admit that I am a below average caster. In fact I'm the guy that drags the average way down. However, I am a finely tuned biped and can expertly step forward as many times as is required to reach the same place. It's my superpower and I'm very proud of it. the KISS approach works great for me and fly line. 

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3 hours ago, Sandan said:

Truth dat! (excluding you and I of courseūüėé)

I can hold my own, but nobody should ever consider me an above-average caster.¬† Guaranteed I'll hit myself in the back of the head, backcast into a tree, and flub a nicely done cast at the last possible moment.¬† ūü§£

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I can hold my own too. I really enjoy whacking the back of my head when trying to chuck weighted streamers farther than I know I should.  The backcast into a tree is classic.  It mostly happens when I'm trying to get that one nice fish which needs the perfect cast.

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20 hours ago, JSzymczyk said:

Is this a Plato vs. Aristotle thing?

 

17 hours ago, SilverCreek said:

It is more Aristotelian.

Actually, it IS a Schrödinger thing ... as in Schrödinger's cat.  There are ALWAYS fish where you're casting and there are NEVER fish where you're casting, until you do or don't catch fish there !!!

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53 minutes ago, mikechell said:

 

Actually, it IS a Schrödinger thing ... as in Schrödinger's cat.  There are ALWAYS fish where you're casting and there are NEVER fish where you're casting, until you do or don't catch fish there !!!

A friend was an avid angler, especially filling the freezer with crappie so his church could have a fish fry. He once told me, "We sit in a boat and cast toward the bank. We sit on the bank and cast out into the water."

When fishing, I often wonder how many fish I am casting over.

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